To be agreeing with new conservative benefits proposal re alcohol etc

[Tigerthebreadroll]

They will cut benefits for people that haven't paid into the system and been unemployed for over 6 months (don't quote me on that number ) by 30 % and it will be given on a prepaid type card. Meaning it won't be accepted by betting shops, for alcohol or cigarettes. I feel that's right . Why should tax payers money be spent on funding cigarettes etc but I have no problem with funding the basics like food etc.
Thoughts?
Basically you will claim full benefits if you've worked and paid into the system. Should reduce generational unemployment hopefully

Because I live in the real world.

It doesn’t sound very fair to the graduates who are desperate to work in any job but genuinely can’t find work.

Id rather see the two child cap back and reduce benefits for people who insist on having children they can’t afford to pay for. Provide for the children through a card that will only pay for food and give minimal cash for clothes and activities.

And in that real world is it a factor for you?

The job gap is currently sitting at 2.5. That means that the number of unemployed people is 2.5 x that of current vacancies. So there literally are not enough jobs. That is going to get worse, not better. The hospital shop that employed staff now has a 'just walk in' system that uses AI and cameras to track your purchases and bill you. Self-checkouts. Since Covid, companies have realised that we'll put up with bad service, so the "we're busier than usual" messages are permanent, not temporary. Instead of having call handlers, you have to send an email or fill in an online form. Instead of all queries being answered, automated telephone lines tell you that if you have such and such category of query, refer to the website which doesn't answer your specific query, then terminates the call.

Entry level jobs are being held by retirees that have decided their pension isn't enough or they would like to be kept busy. Walk around your local B&Q or Sainsbury's.

Nurses, physios, OTs are qualifying and having no jobs to go to because the NHS Trusts have recruiting freezes. So they have to take entry level jobs that they are overqualified for.

Now, look at the person who left school with no GCSEs and has been job seeking for a few years - who will choose them when they could have someone with skills and qualifications, proven through work?

Even me - I haven't worked for 6 years due to caring responsibilities. I can't work because my adult daughter can't be left at home alone and I'm her carer. I was a nurse but lost my registration because I couldn't work. Who will choose an almost 50 year old woman who hasn't worked for years?

Gone are the days when you could walk into a business and win someone over so you got the job. Now, AI sifts applications and auto rejects candidates based on arbitrary criteria.

But yes, let's think about the real problem of someone buying a packet of fags or booze (I'm a non-smoker and teetotal so have no investment in it either way). Are they going to invest some of the money in addiction and employability services? No. Of course not.

I think the idea that it will lead to loads of crime is a bit of a stretch. Plenty of people don’t drink because it’s expensive - they’ve not all turned to crime to fund it. People on benefits aren’t all addicts who are one small step away from crime.

I'm not the person that made the comment - but we don't remember elect prime ministers, so unless there's a change in the electoral system, it can't happen.

It’s dog whistle policy ideas. In reality the cost of implementing this sort of thing would far outstrip the money saved. It would create a black market for selling the pre paid cards which would also increase policing costs. It’s the sort of thing opposition parties suggest to get votes and then quietly shelve when in power citing historic legal reasons they can’t enact it. There is zero evidence cutting off access to alcohol and cigarettes correlates with reduction in joblessness.

No…but they are for people who can afford them once the essentials have been covered. It’s not hard to understand surely.

I didn't say 'loads of crime' - maybe someone else did.

I said an increase in crime.

Huh?

nobody smokes ciggies any more they’re all on the vapes.

keep up with the times luv

At face value, it's a reasonable idea.

In practical terms, it will just generate more admin that will add costs and create a whole new black market.

Not sure what you mean here, what can’t happen?

It's not going to work that way is it though. People will use their cards to buy things that they will barter for cigarettes. If the premise is that there are parents that care more about cigarettes than their children than what about that is going to change. 🤷‍♀️

This isn't going to fix anything.

"The plan would exclude those already in work – about a third of UC claimants have jobs – and those who are assessed as having what is called limited capability for work and work-related activity, because of a health condition or disability. Separate payments connected to housing or dependant children would be unaffected."

The Guardian

It's a factor for her. I wouldn't ever vote Tory anyway, so not a factor for me.

A common sense workable solution.

Then surely a smoking/drinking adult using a food bank to feed their kids should loose their kids. People need to learn priorities.

OP I totally agree with you, unfortunately somewhere along the line someone will say this is an addiction and that's a medical thing and then alcohol and cigs will Be available on the NHS instead.

The idea in theory is nice, but in practice how much £millions will it cost the tax payer to overhaul the current system to implement this? Are we really happy to be taxed more for a nice idea in theory? Seems a little but cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also those who drink and smoke aren't going to give up just because the card wont allow them to buy alcohol or cigarettes, they will find loopholes or buy or steal items to sell, crime.

It's so easy to promise things when you're in Opposition. They had 14 years to sort this out. And what they propose is expensive and unworkable.

But according to this article...

Under the proposals, those who receive this “subsistence allowance” would have it paid into a dedicated debit card that would prevent from them buying alcohol or tobacco, based on an Australian system that was scrapped after trials found limited evidence it changed behaviour.

I guess it depends if you would still agree with it when you/ people you know and love start losing jobs more frequently because of AI 😬

If you’re unemployed and on benefits your life probably already kind of sucks. You want to rob them of the few pleasures in life they can enjoy by treating them like children?

But where do you draw the line if it's only "essentials" that can be bought. No cake on a child's birthday? No toys ?
Come on. We are beyond dickensian workhouses these days. Yes some parents are crap with or without a job, but most are decent people wanting to work

👏👏👏. Yet another back of the fag packet policy designed to reinforce the idea that everyone on benefits is a feckless scrounger. It’s nothing more than a pathetic attempt to appeal to the voters they fear losing to reform.

Hands up how many posters here actually separate their child benefit from their household budget and spend it exclusively on their kids ? How many of you on disability benefits appreciate the fact that you currently have the freedom to support your extra disability related costs in whatever way works best for you ?

If limiting the way unemployment and sickness benefits are spent is taken forward, it won’t be long before the same restrictions are placed on these benefits to. Think about that.

In my opinion, if businesses weren’t being hit so hard by additional taxation to fund the unsustainable benefits bill, there would be more jobs available.

What is your son’s plan to gain experience to help him get a job? Has he considered volunteering or setting up on his own?

The proposals aren’t about punishing people but our current situation where more is paid out in benefits than we gain in income tax cannot continue.