To be agreeing with new conservative benefits proposal re alcohol etc

[Tigerthebreadroll]

They will cut benefits for people that haven't paid into the system and been unemployed for over 6 months (don't quote me on that number ) by 30 % and it will be given on a prepaid type card. Meaning it won't be accepted by betting shops, for alcohol or cigarettes. I feel that's right . Why should tax payers money be spent on funding cigarettes etc but I have no problem with funding the basics like food etc.
Thoughts?
Basically you will claim full benefits if you've worked and paid into the system. Should reduce generational unemployment hopefully

No one should be a "target".

Agree. And it would backfire almost instantly, sucking the selfrighteousness right out of it.

I'm all for robust change to the benefits system. This isn't it though. Where does it leave stay at home parents (women, mainly), carers, those who've been in further education?
This idea I fear would just end up, as has been the case historically, penalising genuine claimants experiencing new ill health (for whom it will be nigh on impossible to 'prove' their illness). They'll be ruled fit to work on some arbitrary tick list, and placed on this scheme. It will do nothing to address long term claimants, who will remain parked on their unfit to work benefits whilst genuine/new claimants pay the price.

The state should not control its citizens to that extent. That's a very slippery slope. If you would not like to be controlled that way, then don't advocate it for another group. Today it might be that group but tomorrow it'll be your group.

I'm not surprised it's Kemi's idea. She's a putative megalomaniac who thinks that only the "right" kind of human beings deserve dignity. Of COURSE it's her who thinks that the state should have that kind of control over people. Fucking Nazi.

I dont think there is a proposal for people not to qualify ... just reducing the amount itself . Not taking it all away . Surely this will encourage some to actively look for work and probably still get support or auC when they do find work ? Why is it all or nothing ?

Oh stop being so pedantic

You know exactly what I meant

Do you get offended at being a "target audience" for ads??

Grow up

I know, the lack any sort of credible strategy or vision for growth - and policies that are actually stifling it - is a huge concern. The government seems clueless on it. It's frightening.

You can’t make them stop smoking sadly, only encourage

Is she single without kids? Because someone who is and who is over 25 gets 434 pounds a month in UC.

How does cutting peoples benefits end generational unemployment?

Ratcliffe doesn't pay tax here but is very keen on government hand outs

He has received plenty of UK state aid.

Yes, but I don’t think the YANBU vote alone tells you very much, because it’s obvious that this kind of performative, populist proposal is going to be superficially appealing.

But as soon as you think about how it would work in practice, it falls apart. There are lots of people in the centre and on the centre right who don’t like ideologically driven policy - they want pragmatic, evidence based policy that will actual work. There is very little evidence to suggest this is that - and strong counter arguments that it will cause more problems that it solves.

On top of which, from a libertarian point of view, it’s very troubling - and a lot of centrist voters really dislike state over reach.

Sorry what 🤣

it's just silly headlines

most people if they want cigs or alcohol are buying them on the ‘black’ market anyway

and not giving people cash is just a way to keep more money in the hands of businesses.

let’s say your kid needs school uniform. If it’s on a prepaid card, it’s likely you can only buy new at Tesco or Sainsbury’s. Whereas if you have cash you can buy from the uniform sale at school.
can’t use a prepaid card to buy your kids Christmas presents from Facebook marketplace but it will work at Argos.

do you not see how this benefits big business? It will cost people more to buy things. Because of some virtue signalling, headline grabbing thing about cigs and alcohol.

im currently claiming job seekers allowance for the first time in my life after 15+ years of a professional career. If someone gave that to me on a prepaid card, I wouldn’t have been able to stretch it half as far as I have done and also how utterly infantilising that would be.

Do you think the state should fund ‘poor people’ to go out? Call me what you like but I don’t. I think if you want to go out then you find it yourself.

Is this a radical perspective?

And therein lies the fundamental problem with democracy.

Politicians quite naturally favour policies that they believe will get them elected.

The electorate favour simplistic ideas which are superficially appealing without really bothering to engage with the detail.

And important decisions for the country are therefore made on the basis of how well the headlines will play, rather than on evidence of how well the policies will actually work.

The only possible solution to this is for the electorate to become more actively engaged and better informed. I don't hold out much hope for that, so I suspect that we are doomed to be forever governed by soundbites.

We have a population cohort who are dependent on alcohol and who'll disproportionately rely on benefits given what alcohol addiction does to people. We don't have the services in place to help those people. With that in mind, I don't think policies that attempt to remove their access to alcohol are particularly sensible.

Although I suppose there'd be a fair amount of card buying.

I have a job weeding and picking up litter. If people on benefits are doing those jobs for "free" (government subsidised), why would my employer bother keeping me on?

Your plan has neatly created one more benefits claimant (me) because I'm now out of work.

Didn't you read the memo that there are more unemployed than available jobs in the UK?

Cutting benefits will not find people jobs more quickly. Would you want to live on 434 quid a month and then get 100 pounds of that taken off you because you haven't found work quickly enough?

Im honestly sick of the narrative that unemployed people should weed and litter pick. Just waiting for the washing windows suggestions

You didn’t address his points. Gas is 8 times more expensive here than in the US and 12 x more than in China. If you were Ratcliffe where would you choose to run your business? He’s trying to choose the UK, but as gas is a major resource used by the industry he has mothballed you can see why he is struggling to make it work.

people in this country are fighting like rats in a sack about benefits and immigration whereas if we had governments that encourage growth - well that is the real magic money tree - we’d have plenty for everyone.

Surely the onus was on you to find out rather than assume?

This. Brexit being one of the biggest examples of this.

Should unemployed people just stay in 24/7 then?

Even if all the above were in place, I'd like to see Badenoch's maths on this.
There are approximately 1m unemployed people who can work and never have. 80% are under 25. So this policy would save £26m per week against a weekly welfare spend of £6.4 billion.
I would need to see that 0.4% saving balanced against:
The costs incurred to administer the scheme
The costs to the exchequer of lost revenue on high tax purchases. Which would obviously require data on how much the group currently spend on alcohol, cigarettes and gambling. Do she have this?
An estimation of additional costs to the NHS, social services and the CJS plus charities, which invariably accompany increased poverty.
This would be the minimum required to see if it made financial sense.
I'd then like to see any evidence that debunks the evidence we have that these measures are not effective in addressing worklessness.
Because in the absence of all that, this 'plan' looks like populist nonsense designed to appeal to the emotions of those who don't think it through, and more akin to what I'd expect from Reform than an experienced political party.