What do we REALLY think about the weight loss jabs?

[Newbabynewhouse]

I've put this on AIBU rather than weight loss jab because I want a neutral audience rather than people who are all using the jab.
What are peoples thoughts on the jab? I'd love to hear from someone educated in the medical field about whether these are actually safe for people without diabetes.
I'm obese and I have lost a stone so far by dieting although it's taking me a long time! I know if I keep trying hard I can lose what I need to. Lots of people I know have started dropping weight from using the jabs and I am tempted however, can't shake a feeling that there's something not quite right.
What I mean by this is... these jabs have been around for years for diabetic people, so why have they only just been 'released' to people despite obesity effecting the NHS for years?
I know a woman who fainted in work the other day with gallbladder issues, she's on the jab.
Also, I'm going to sound a little conspiracy theorist now, but, isn't it odd these jabs became popular straight after people starting refusing to have more covid jabs..?.. I'd love to hear from people with a bit of background info or medical professionals to tell me whether I'm overthinking or if I'm onto something?

@ChunkyMonkey36 I will mention WL treatments on online discussions where someone is asking for help with their obesity and outlining their struggles with it. I wouldn't push it if they said they weren't interested. The only other thing I might go on to do is to correct any misunderstandings about WLI if I thought that was relevant to their decision making process.

In real life I don't discuss weight at all, my own or anyone else's, and if someone starts that kind of topic I will shift the conversation on or bow out. I agree it's tedious for people to repeatedly offer their own weight loss "insights" in whatever form that takes, whether its WLI or WW, SW or whatever.

Are you offered WLI regularly at medical appointments? Or do you mean in another context?

Interesting.

i just personally had a pattern that whenever I restricted calories below a certain level, and it really wasn’t that low, I got a migraine of the type where I couldn’t do anything but lay in a black room or I would vomit. It was incredibly frustrating. That no longer happens.

This is because obesity isn’t always a health condition, and the blanket branding of obesity as a ‘disease’ is unhelpful.

In some cases, there may be a hormonal issue causing the obesity, but there are also many, many people who are overweight or obese but metabolically healthy. The question is, should people who are metabolically healthy be taking these drugs, and to what extent do they risk destroying their healthy metabolism?

I don’t doubt that weight loss medication is useful for some people under some circumstances, but making it available to buy for anyone with a bit of weight to lose is a whole different issue.

As I’ve mentioned - I don’t take them and have no intention of doing so. For context, I was almost 17st earlier this year.

The risk of being that size is far higher than taking jabs to get rid of that weight, I can absolutely see that. It absolutely wouldn’t class as a “bit of” weight to lose. I’m 1lb off 2st lost and probably still have another 2 to go before I even think about maintenance.

For people in the position I was, totally get it.

For people with “less to lose” I feel that they have in them that “stop” already, because they didn’t arrive at morbid obesity, so that just seems like more of a vanity project - and I don’t believe it’s right to treat a condition you’ve never developed.

But they are not just for morbid obesity, obesity and over weight can be very damaging for health, my bmi was 32, the doctors couldn’t control my blood pressure, I was on max of two meds and they thought I may have adrenal gland cancer, I also had sleep apnea and insulin resistance, my blood pressure is now healthy at bmi 2o, if I’d become even close to morbidly obese I’d likely have died,

I’ve been offered them/had them mentioned by the NHS 3 times since February, despite having started losing weight in April and being 2st down. I have raised that I’ve been lead to believe that losing weight at that rate would be considered healthy use of WLI, so surely it’s a wasted resource. Hopeful it won’t be mentioned again when I have my next review in December.

Otherwise, I did mean WLI users encouraging me to use them, in a less than gentle way. To put it politely.

I get that for many they are a wonder drug, but I don’t need to be told that Sue from work lost 7 stone in 4 months so actually your 2 stone is shit and could be more, if you just used them.

I’m, rightfully I think, proud of how far I’ve come over the last few months, and I never accept it being minimised by the people I’m referring to, who don’t seem able to accept “I’m good thanks” as a complete answer.

@MidnightMeltdown You could consider that obesity is always a health condition as it increases your risk of very many other health outcomes. It isn't a healthy state for your body to be in even if you are currently metabolically healthy.

WHO definition of overweight and obesity: "Overweight and obesity are defined as abnormal or excessive fat accumulation that presents a risk to health"

You said: "The question is, should people who are metabolically healthy be taking these drugs, and to what extent do they risk destroying their healthy metabolism?"

Surely the answer is yes, because it prevents damage from happening and reduces the risks of very many other health issues. I am interested in why you think they might destroy their healthy metabolism?

The next point you made - "I don’t doubt that weight loss medication is useful for some people under some circumstances, but making it available to buy for anyone with a bit of weight to lose is a whole different issue."

WLI aren't available to buy for anyone with a bit of weight to lose. It must be prescribed and there are criteria. Even for off licence prescribing, people must be overweight and have some justification for taking a weight loss medication that isn't simply cosmetic. I am surprised that people do take the risk of taking a prescription obesity medication when they are not BMI 27 plus, but I don't think it's necessary to prevent them from doing so if that's what they think is the right course of action.

I think they’re good if used under the supervision of a medical professional.

Unfortunately too many people who have always been clueless about food/nutrition are using them as an “easy fix” without making any changes to their diet/fitness routine.

I know two people on them (purchased through illegal channels) who are basically just starving themselves. Barely eating anything, and when they do it’s just junk. They’re delighted that they’ve lost the weight, but it can’t be good for their health overall.

Taking fake illegal drugs is very different indeed.

@ChunkyMonkey36 it's rubbish that you have people around you that don't seem to have much empathy or common sense. It's also a shame that the NHS keep offering you a treatment that you've told them you don't want. Hopefully it's made it onto your notes and no one will mention it in future.

Clearly it doesn't matter how you lose weight, you are successfully doing so and the method is not relevant.

@pinkishtongue The two people you know who are taking illegal medication are risking all sorts of things. What they are doing is unrelated to people taking these medications legitimately.

"too many people who have always been clueless about food/nutrition are using them as an “easy fix” without making any changes to their diet/fitness routine."

This is a very common complaint that people make about WLI which is then often used as a justification for placing additional barriers in the way of people accessing them. In fact, if obese people lose weight, even without improving their diet overall, they will still have reduced their overall risks of many weight-related health conditions. Someone being clueless about food and nutrition or exercise shouldn't be prevented from accessing an appropriate treatment for obesity. They will be told about diet and exercise when it's prescribed to them. It may take a while for that to sink in, but I would rather they had the opportunity to be at a healthy weight with a shit diet, than obese with a shit diet.

I disagree. Weight loss drugs are designed to treat a metabolic disorder. People who don’t have this disorder, shouldn’t be take them, regardless of their weight, as they risk long term damage to their metabolism.

Lots of doctors don’t agree that obesity is a disease, the reason it’s been classified that way is largely to do with funding.

https://www.science.org/content/article/obesity-disease-not-always-new-expert-report-says?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fq%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.science.org%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2Fobesity-disease-not-always-new-expert-report-says%26sa%3DU%26ved%3D2ahUKEwie4-rl64SXAxXmREEAHUyJOksQFnoECC0QAQ%26usg%3DAOvVaw39Qd9zH-ghQEc5871uO7Le

Using a substance to not feel guilty or not think about food is indisputably a lifestyle choice, compared to using a substance to manage diabetes or reduce weight from obesity. Yes, you can choose to do that and for people with a weight related condition or diabetes it’s advised to stay on WLIs for life, but for others - and it sounds like you might be one - it’s a choice. And it’s an understandable one. If you’re someone who finds it hard to lose weight or maintain a healthy weight, then something that makes it easier is compelling. And that’s absolutely fine, it’s a choice.

But other people are entitled to different opinions about that choice - they can’t change it for you but they can think and say whatever they want about it. They can be concerned about the effect on society, on population health, on young people. They can think it’s an easy route for people who don’t actually have that much to lose, and no related health condition, but who see it as an easier route. And you seem very, very angry and even frightened about that. It’s hard to see how that’s overall a healthy thing, to replace food addiction with drug addiction.

Indeed. Morbid obesity is defined as a BMI of 40, and the idea that below this threshold an obese person can simply 'stop' and if using WLIs is engaging in a vanity project to lose the weight is not one that is backed by any reliable evidence.

Of course people giving unwanted weight loss advice to others is rude and unhelpful. I suspect most obese/formerly obese people have some experience being on the end of this and it's shit.

The issue is we’ve made ‘legitimate’ a very low bar, so the cohort of eligible people is massive. Coincidentally the manufacturers of these drugs are raking it in…

Rememeber when we used to say ‘BMI isn’t an exact science, and it’s not that helpful for [insert outlying group]. Why are we medicalising being fat, rather than medicalising actual disease?

No problem. I wish the naysayers on this thread would have a listen.

Yeo is interesting, and the thing I learned from his work is that UPF totally fucks satiety, for several reasons. Which is why I’m an advocate for much tighter regulation of it.

@Allisnotlost1 I don’t think the MHRA did make the prescribing criteria too low. The number of eligible people is large because a lot of the UK is overweight or obese. I also don’t have a massive issue with the drug manufacturers making their money back for the R&D of these medications. They are effective treatments for a wide range of serious health issues. I am very grateful to live in a time where these medications have been developed.

I am not sure why you suggest there’s a binary choice between medicalising being fat and medicalising “actual” disease? And being fat has been considered a medical issue for very much longer than these medications.

Horrible. I have atypical migraine (i think they call it migraine with aura now actually) but generally no pain, just blindness. I had a stroke and as a result they found I had a PFO, which it turns out is more common among migraine patients. Fixed now, no more migraines.

This is incorrect. It is not to treat a metabolic disorder, the drugs are to treat obesity, when prescribed for obesity, they are to treat diabetes when prescribed for diabetes and they will shortly be prescribed for cardio vascular disease.

secondly obesity is a disease as a disease simply means an abnormal condition that impacts the normal functioning of a living entity, obesity and overweight falls into this definition. Carrying excess fat impacts the normal functioning of our bodies.

i think a lot of people don’t understand what a disease is, they think it means it’s outwith the persons control or it’s contagious, that’s not what a disease is, and lots of doctors don’t disagree,

UPFs are a source of great ills.

I would think it’s inaccurate to assume all overweight people have a weight related illness though.

And that’s the difference between medicalising being fat and medicalising actual disease. Obesity is a major issue. Childhood obesity even more so. I come back to, great we have WLIs for those who need them, but they are only part of the solution. Why are we still watching kids get obese and unhealthy and then prescribing drugs when they are old enough? How does that make sense?

The people I’m referring to are getting them from abroad (god knows how, they are being very cagey but insist they’re real WL jabs being used abroad, just not licensed here).

Due to this, they’re not being given any advice on diet at all. The one was complaining she’s tired all the time (unsurprising given what she’s eating each day) I imagine they’re both totally malnourished by now.

Obesity and diabetes are metabolic disorders.

Edited to remove accidental double post.