Would I be unreasonable to stop toddler overnights with dad and nan?

[justhereokay]

I need some outside perspective because I genuinely can’t tell anymore if I’m being nitpicky.

My dd is 20 months and stays overnight at her paternal nans. Her dad has MS and significant mobility difficulties, so I completely understand him needing his mum’s help and have never had an issue with that. He doesn’t stay there overnight himself, so his mum does the overnight care and he comes back the next day. She does most of the physical things.

Over the past 6 months there’s just been a buildup of things: she’s fallen off the sofa and bruised her head after he left her in the living room, come back sunburnt, had her car-seat straps left really loose despite being reminded multiple times, and once came back with a deep scratch on her leg that they couldn’t explain. I said maybe the dog did it by accident ( it looked a lot like a claw mark), but they wouldn’t accept it as a possibility. She’s come back wet through with wee before because her dad said he hadn’t had a chance to change her while they were at the park, and on multiple occasions she’s come home with small amounts poo still on her bum after being changed. She was taken to softplay where she wasnt appropriately dressed ( nappy on full display and bare foot), and once I was sent a video of her running in an open field with cows literally a couple metres away (nan and dad were close to her though). I’ve raised some things before and they’ll be addressed, but then something different seems to happen. Or other times it seems her dad just doesn’t see the problem or risk. When I said about being close to cows he said “ fine I’ll just never take her there again”. And it was a lot of back and forth when I said baby/toddler should not be unsupervised/alone around his dog.

Today his mum actually sent me a video where dd nearly fell backwards off a climbing-frame platform onto the hard floor. She was sitting right on the edge with the drop behind her, started going backwards and managed to grab something and pull herself forward. Her nan was in front of her filming.

I also rang her dad to video call dd assuming he’s with her, but he hadn’t gone over there yet, because he thought she may be napping. I feel he doesn’t take any authority as her dad or understand her routine, double checking safety such as the car seat. I’m not sure if it’s a regular occurrence, missing most of the contact day.

I KNOW toddlers fall, get bruises and accidents happen. Anyone of these things in isolation probably wouldn’t make me change anything. It’s the fact there always seems to be something new, even after I’ve raised previous concerns, and the stays are now causing me a lot of anxiety.

I don’t think another reminder will fix the lack of common sense or situation/risk awareness. I know it’s harsh, but I’m thinking about my child. They both love her, make an effort for her and I have a good relationship with the both of them.

I’m thinking of stopping overnights at nans for now and having a conversation about everything. How do I approach this?

He sees her here during the week, where most of the contact happens anyway. I would just change the overnight at his mums to here, where his mum is also welcome to come.

@justhereokay I'd be with you on this one. Your idea sounds sensible until your dc is a bit older and more independent.

How is it punishing? Most contact with dd and dad happens here anyway. I would just change the stay at nans to visit here.

it is my only opportunity for time to myself and a break. So I am willing to make the sacrifice for dd safety.

I think this is a tricky one as some of your examples are just down to different parenting choices.
Yes there is a safety element to some - reapplying suncream regularly, check car seat straps but I don't think in court they would be seen as significant enough to cut contact.

Also as others have said, cutting out the overnights isn't when the issues happen, or are you concerned that the grandmother is kept awake at night and then these things happen due to tiredness?

It sounds like it is the grandmother and maybe this is tricky for your ex to negotiate. Maybe he has said to her about checking things or has asked for help on something but she has done the we didn't do that in my day, or she is fine stop worrying. Perhaps she has even said she won't help if he interferes and will leave him to it (which he knows he won't be able to do).

I agree it's not punishing it's because it sounds like they are struggling to care for her safely. Once she's older and potty trained it could be looked at again.

In a way, yes. But I wouldn’t mind them taking her out for a bit in my area, or I pop out for a short time while they are here. I just don’t want her 30 minute drive away for over 24 hours with them because I feel it’s a serious incident waiting to happen.

So you’d allow them to continue doing the things you have the most issue with? If I was her dad I wouldn’t agree to this to be honest, but maybe he will.

there’s a few more serious concerns
The problem is that these are not issues considered serious in a court of law.

So if you stop overnights, he's not happy about it, he tries mediation, you still don't agree a resolution and he goes to court, it's highly highly likely that it will go against you. At best, the judge could order that her dad does a parenting class and recommend his parents join him, but that's it.

In the meantime, you've lost your trusting co-parenting relationship. He will tell you absolutely nothing and you'll be left worrying about everything.

The best solution is to pick your battles and speak amicably with them about the most concerning matters with no threats of stopping contact.

I wouldn't allow anyone who lets black mould build up in a drinking cup to supervise a child alone.

I’m not stopping contact, just adjusting a day. Most of the contact is here anyway. The time spent would remain the same, just that a few of the hours will be here, not at his mums.

I would stop overnights as her father isn’t even there anyway. Maybe the nan is tired or struggling or maybe she has different standards but I wouldn’t be happy either. I don’t see it as a ‘punishment’ and I am surprised at the answers you have had.

This is where you come across as controlling and blocking proper access to his child. You say you are happy for him to see his daughter but only in your house under supervision, or where they can pop out for a short period of time while you are still in the vicinity.
There is no real reason for this to happen. Currently things sound amicable with him sending photos when they are out but I can see all of that stopping if you pick at him and his mum over their care.

Okay, I think this is disproportionate, but if he's in agreement then no problem. If he chooses to challenge in court then he'll likely win back unsupervised contact.

His contact and the intervention that happens is the same whether he’s here with her or at his mums. He is unable to take her out on his own, as he can’t put her in the car or carry her. So I help with that if he’s here or his mum does if he’s in that town. I’m really not blocking anything, it’s more his mum things will change for.

It's not pernickety to want your child strapped safely into their car seat, supervised around animals, or to have poo and black mould adequately cleaned. This is clearly a situation in which a 1-year-old's caregivers are not meeting her needs, even if they also love and enjoy her.

And did you read the bit where OP said that the father isn't present at overnights and comes later during the day too? So he really isn't missing out on time with her if he just saw her during the day. He could just visit OP for an additional day for the same level of contact.

I think there’s things that are unclear in my post.

firstly, he has never been in charge alone with her for more than an hour. That’s simply because of the physical limitations and he gets fatigued. It’s not his fault and I really feel for him - I try my best to support him as a dad while allowing him to feel like an independent dad despite the physical disability

so his contact is mostly here, but one night a week he goes to his mums where dd is staying. Whether he is here or at his mums, the level of contact he has is the same.

if I stop overnight, things would remain the same for him but he would be at my home, where his mum is welcome to come.

for the overnight, he goes home from his mum in the evening and comes back the next day, he doesn’t actually have that overnight responsibility. It’s more the fact after all these incidents, some pretty minor just show there’s a lack of risk awareness mainly on his mums part. There’s constantly something, almost every week and some bigger than others.

OP, it sounds like the child's dad is deferring too much to his mother since these aren't issues at your house when he's over. He's allowing his mother to take charge due to his disability and not taking the initiative to check things for himself as you've asked. That is within his ability.

It sounds like his mum either isn't coping or has very low standards of hygiene/safety, and he isn't choosing to intervene where he can. I understand he may not be physically able to do everything he'd like with his child, and he needs his mum to facilitate it, but he should still be in charge. It sounds like the dynamic between them is making that difficult to establish. Is his MS a recent development? If so perhaps they haven't figured out their new normal, but that doesn't mean you can't flag up that things are not working. Your child's well-being is at stake after all.

Given that your child's dad isn't present for overnights anyway, and his mum seems to be delivering a patchy standard of care (maybe she's overwhelmed?) I think it would be fair to offer more contact at yours or daytime only. I know PPs are pointing out that the harm isn't happening at night, but I don't think that's the point - it's a long time for a 1-year-old to be in dodgy care with no oversight. I don't think you're unreasonable to be alarmed by this tbh.

He doesn’t stay there overnight himself, so his mum does the overnight care and he comes back the next day. She does most of the physical things.

I have never seen the point in access by proxy

It's him you share access with, not his mother. If you think he'd be open to a conversation about how this is working I'd start there.

I’m not stopping contact, just adjusting a day. Most of the contact is here anyway. The time spent would remain the same, just that a few of the hours will be here, not at his mums
It makes no difference. The point is that if he thinks you are trying to prevent his time with your son, he can go to court and they will agree with him.

Many many children grow up in this country who experience every day what you think is bad parenting. These are not considered safeguarding concerns. A court will consider that he has as much right to have time with your son as you. You don't get to decide unilaterally.

Going to court is extremely stressful for everyone and costly. If he thinks you are forcing him to do so, you can bet he will not be amicable any longer. He will tell you nothing at all and do what he wants anyway with a court order.

This is a much much worse case scenario and will have much more of a negative impact long term on your child then having a bit of poo stuck for a couple of hours.

Sounds to me that you're trying to find a compromise that ensures your child is at less perceived risk whilst maintaining the same level of contact for dad. You know nan will miss out though.

Before you proceed though, have a think. Was she safely strapped in the car seat, or was she not strapped as tightly as you would do it? Was she running within a metre of the cow or was she in the same field?

I often found it difficult when mine were that age to see that i measured everyone else's care of my children by my standards. I'm wondering if it's possible that your daughter is always safe, but not as far away from risk as you would keep her?

Most of your list are pretty minor niggles
I spent my childhood in fields with cows. As long as the dog isnt taken into the field when they have calves i wouldn't worry about that and climbing frames are never over a hard surface it will be rubberised but might look like tarmac although
. Rolling off the sofa and the scratch are oar for the course for a toddler really.
I am not sure how this is a MIL issue when her father is in charge during the day when these things happy.
Apart from the car seat and being left alone with tbe dog, these are all very minor things really.I would focus on the major stuff

You’ve articulated what I was trying to say and how I’m thinking better than my attempt lol. Thank you for getting it.

he has had MS for a while but it can vary, get a bit better, get worse etc.

i think I’ll have a chat with him first. I think it’s his mum who won’t take it well.

Be prepared for him to hear you but ultimately not say anything to his mum. In all likelihood, they are going to share less with you to reduce the opportunity of you to make comments. But talking is good, if only to raise his awareness.