AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

And what if it isn’t anxiety. What if it is reluctance to do something because there is no benefit to it.

We all have to do things like that for eg work but isn’t social interaction supposed to be pleasant?

See, I also overthink and worry about being needy. I just push on if I can.

I met a woman I quite like-after several years-at a talk. We used to move in similar circles She said " Don't be a stranger" when we left. Not sure what she means. Does she mean she fancies a coffee? Or just being polite.

What I will do is reach out to her the next time there is a talk on that subject or if I am in her neighbourhood. If she says no, that's fine. No big deal. I won't push her further.

Perhaps it’s the paradox that trying to make friends can push people away.

As for being people being kinder to those on the outside of the group, whereas that is a nice theory, adults shouldn’t be obligated to include everyone regardless of their feelings. I personally don’t think children should be obligated either.

When I meet someone new, I click on some level or I don’t. If I click with them then things will generally develop into a friendship. If I don’t then I discount them.

Maybe it’s an ND thing.

It's stuff like this

I just completely disagree with this, sorry. You can't have a good romantic relationship without an underpinning friendship.

Thats such an absolute statement, like you're treating it as a fact, when it's not. You couldn't have a romantic relationship that didn't include friendship. To be honest neither could I. But people can and do. People on this thread have told you that they do.

My Grandparents had a wonderful relationship. They were together 60 years, they loved the bones off each other. They were so affectionate with each other, raised 5 kids successfully, had what I presume was a healthy sex life given the fact my Aunt accidentally walked in on them at it on the sofa when they were in their 70's.

But I never once saw them have a conversation with each other that wasn't logistical. They were both good conversationalists, could happily chat to others for hours, but they just had absolutely no interests in common with each other. No friendship would have survived that, to be friends with someone you need to have something to talk to them about. Apparently, thats not actually required in a romantic relationship. They didn't do chatting, they danced. They met while dancing, and so thats what they kept doing.

I think you are misunderstanding the type of interaction the researchers mean
It doesnt only refer to friendships but also the nod/ wave to a neighbour, morning to the shopkeeper, a smile to the dog walker you see daily
People who are truly isolated dont have this not people who arent leaping to make friends with everyone

What worries me is the people who keep headphones on all the time

Well, there are posters who agree with you, but they're useless to you. The only responses helpful to you come from those who have partners but not friends. You've been told that these can be completely different experiences, but you choose not to believe it. You have your answer but for some reason you don't like it. You just want to have your initial opinion verified. 'Yes Miss People. You're so right. I have a partner and therefore I can make friends. I'll just go off and do that now instead of wasting time on MN. Bye!!'

Finding a partner has a relatively clear “social script.” If you’re interested in someone, you ask them out. Dating sites have even clearer procedures for identifying and contacting potential partners. It’s considered normal to talk with someone you’re dating about the status of the relationship, and there are definable stages. You’re dating, or dating exclusively, or living together, or engaged, or married.

Friendship is so much more ambiguous. Is someone really your friend, or are they just being nice? There’s no point at which you establish that you are in fact friends with someone. Seeking out friends when you don’t have any can make you look weird and desperate; in contrast, seeking out a potential partner when you don’t have one just makes you look single.

Very well put.

Why does it worry you? It keeps the dickheads away!

Well it doesn’t, but it’s a start. People still think it’s okay to speak to you but at least with earphones on, you don’t have to be so polite in response.

@BlueSherbet just wow. Look at all the women on Mumsnet that have useless male partners who do sweet FA to help with their kids, don't change a nappy, don't pay child maintenance, swan off to play golf / cycling, think parenting and cleaning is above them, and on top of that there are a huge amount who leech off the woman financially as well, refusing to even get a job. Your assertions are so wrong it's insane.

If ever there was a self-centred sex, however...

I was 22 when I met DH and have always kept up with my friends. I made my closest friends in my teens and we’ve stuck around. I’m always open to new friendships as like spending time with people I get on with.

i had two DC and the school mums were a great source of social life although im not in touch with many now from primary days (11 years hence), but at the time it was good to have the network and I went to some great 40ths!!!

Agree meeting a partner was much harder - you need to really put yourself out there, someone has to fancy you and vice versa, the timing need to be right.

The only time I was lonely was when I first had DD / I had friends as I said, but only two had children, my NCT class wasn’t that bonded and DD wasn’t a chilled baby so I had to go out to save my sanity. There wasn’t Whstsapp groups so harder to arrange too. Unf the two mums I really clicked with moved

A ‘romantic’ relationship can be based purely on sex. You can be with someone for years where the only connection is that you like to fuck each other. It can still be a good relationship without friendship

Agree
Also some social interactions can be negative, so avoiding them is self preservation
@Thepeopleversuswork
You are making an awful lot of assumptions on this thread
Online groups are a lifesaver for some people

Sorry if I've come across as strident but if I strongly disagree with something I will say so. I don't think I've been rude, just definitive: I'm not going to pretend to agree with a position if I strongly disagree with it.

I'm not trying to make judgements about what people's romantic relationships should be like, that's obviously a very personal thing.

I'm trying to make the point that the fear, anxiety and vulnerability of putting yourself forward for a relationship, whether that be a romantic relationship or a friendship, are (in my view) pretty well matched.

A PP asked this question but if you're at the point of meeting someone new, whether that be a potential romantic partner or a potential friend, maybe you're in the pub, maybe a cafe, whatever, you're going to get the nerves of meeting someone new and the fear of rejection and vulnerability.

A lot of people have said romantic relationships follow a "script" but even if they do (and I don't think they do) there's still an element of chance, risk, fear to putting yourself out there like that. Plus the additional element of sexual attraction (or lack of it), which no one can control.

I feel like I've said this until I'm blue in the face and maybe I'm not going to convince anyone but I don't understand why this should be less daunting than having a very open ended coffee with another woman with no fixed outcome.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. That intense period of sexual attraction rarely lasts more than 18 months to 2 years, tops. It can be a lot of fun while it lasts but once that wears off, if you don't have friendship (or some other kind of bond such as shared children) you don't have much left.

That intense period of sexual attraction rarely lasts more than 18 months to 2 years, tops.

Again, you're taking something that's true for you, and stating it as a fact about everyone.

Edit: Actually, I missed the "rarely" there. You've left yourself a little bit of wiggle room on that one 😄

But also this can change, many times over a lifetime, depending on so many circs and factors.

A person can at some point despair at being rubbish at romance, at others, feel isolated due to geography, or poverty, or Covid, others, have lots of friends and feel overflowing with social energy, othertimes be happy to be solitary, othertimes be desperate for solitude but unable to find it, others ... well, you get the picture. It varies so hugely. And we all have different wants and needs and hopes and problems.

One thing I think is missing from OP's assertions is consideration of the larger social factors and frameworks. Economics, for a start. That's enormous, and that has changed a lot over past few generations. Work, money, costs.

Focussing all the problems and all the issues within individuals somewhat ironically really misses out what OP claims to be concerned with, namely, how we relate to each other and wider society.

We know you don't understand it. It's perfectly obvious that you don't.

But you continue to post as though you think that the rest of us are wrong. We're not, we're just telling you how it is for us.

You have the wonderful advantage of being naturally able to navigate social situations, whether romantic or in friendships. To you there's no difference, because you don't even have to think about it. You just 'get' people and can read them without needing to try.

Those of us who do have to try, have completely different social experiences, and for us there's a clear difference between getting to know a potential partner, and negotiating all the many people that we come across every day, who might or might not want us in their friendship circle.

What if its fuck all to do with whether women are making the correct efforts and sacrifices and jumping through particular hoops, and rather more to do with things like shifts to working from home, moves away from multi storey buildings, terraced housing, zero hours contracts, childcare being funded while time off for raising one's own children isn't funded, inheritance tax, house prices, the collapse of 'the village', a move to more urban environments, an ageing population and immigration, etc. There are so many factors to consider. Looking only at whether women are acting in the 'right way' on an individual level is myopic.

I can only speak for myself, but personally I never found making or receiving romantic overtures to be daunting. I can understand why others do, but I just didn't feel that way.
I was blunt and up-front in my interactions, and followed the script in my head that seemed to make sense - and men seemed to appreciate that and respond well to it. Forming new friendships (I already had a handful from school; fellow misfits), however, was a whole different kettle of fish. There was no end goal to work towards, and no script that appeared to work, just a lot of time and effort for ambiguous results and often little enjoyment on my part, as well as the risk of rejection and social ostracism.

I think what you are missing @Thepeopleversuswork is that everyone has their own needs, wants, feelings, responsibilities and social bandwidth and this is variable daily, weekly, monthly and throughout life
This is not an X vsY = xyz issue

Honestly someone saying or intimating they dont have the bandwidth for new friendships is incredibly responsible and honest imho
Its maturity to be able to accept this without the whole " why meee" drama
Most of the people I politely sidestepped then showed up exactly as I expected and confirmed my instincts were correct

I haven't encountered many autistic women. And the ones that I have known to have autism were just not compatible (heavily into trans righst activism or just more socially 'able' than me).

@saraclara

We know you don't understand it. It's perfectly obvious that you don't.
But you continue to post as though you think that the rest of us are wrong. We're not, we're just telling you how it is for us.

Sigh... of course I don't understand other people's direct experiences, that's why I posted in the first place.

I always find it slightly exhausting when people come on and post "we're all different, why's that hard to understand?" it's not that people don't understand this, they do, they just want to talk about it. It's what makes life interesting.

Enough people have signaled to me that it's how they are wired, so I accept that, I'm not trying to deny other people's life experiences. I personally find it utterly baffling, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, just something I don't understand.

I have social anxiety and find talking to people I don’t know well really stressful. However I always knew having a husband and children was something I really wanted, and in the end I was more anxious about the idea of that never happening than I was about having to date and talk to people to make it happen. It was stressful but I knew that I had to do it or I wouldn’t have the life that I wanted. I was lucky enough to find someone who is perfect for me after just a couple of dates, and after a few weeks with him I got to know him and became very comfortable with him. We’ve been together for 10 years and have two children. I probably could make friends if I was absolutely determined to like I was with finding a relationship, but I feel I can manage fine without them so it doesn’t really seem worth the stress. Plus I am very busy with two young children now so I don’t really have the headspace to really focus on making friends, which I would have to do because it’s very difficult for me.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it! Meeting someone young and staying together seems to be quite common.

So sorry you were bullied and experienced sexual trauma - I hope life has got better for you since those years