To ask how any non-violent child in Scotland manages to function at this point

[CurdinHenry]

The law now essentially prevents any intervention when an under 18 commits an offence

So we've got violent crime going completely unchecked (indeed it's rewarded with extra visits and promises of "resources" for the perpetrator). It's scary for adults but at least we can try to keep our distance in a (thankfully) ageing population.

How the fuck do kids who have to sit shut in a room with unchecked psychos handle it? Never mind the threat, which must be terrifying, but how do they process how unfair it is? How did we as adults let this total bullshit happen? Obviously blame Nicola sturgeon for yet another woke fuck up.

How was that the 'handwringing lefties' fault? Had the conservatives not been in power for over a decade at that point? Or are they the 'hand wringing lefties' that you are talking about?

I am sorry what?!

For where. The whole of Scotland you have no exclusions?!

I am a 90s baby but I think in my year group in one English secondary class we had about 4 exclusions over the whole 7 year period.

Stop making this left and right. I'm very left wing, but believe very strongly in consequences for bad behavior. You can believe in justice, law and order and be left wing.

After meetings with Head, council officers, informal and formal complaints, we went private after our child spent much of P4 being physically assaulted. If it had happened outside the school or between adults then we would have involved the police. The head wouldn’t send the culprit home as ‘his home environment wasn’t good’ and constantly quoting about how important it was to support him because of getting it right for every child. Seemed it didn’t matter about our child. This was in a small rural primary.

The Conservatives had been in power for 13 years when Valdo Colacane killed.

Yes, and why is it that the innocent victims are supposed to show resilience but the thugs are not - THEIR awful behaviour is communication and they can’t have any consequences for “expressing themselves” by attacking a classmate but the victim of their attack just has to grin and bear it?

This is not correct. I am talking about Edinburgh Council.

The problem is the dial has shifted too much from the victim to the perpetrator. It can’t be right that one or two kids can ruin the education of 28 others in a class.

I moved my 9 year old to private to get away from aggressive boys. There is literally no way I’d send her to our catchment secondary and risk being around some of those kids as they get bigger and older. I made the point quite firmly to the head that as an adult I would not be expected to work with someone who had assaulted me. Why the hell should children have to experience that every day and just crack on. A weight was lifted when she moved. I wish I’d done it sooner as I hadn’t realised how much it had affected her.

I remember in year 1 that a teacher said she needed to build resilience after being hit over the head. I was seething. I never want my girls to be resilient to being hurt- it is fhe exact opposite message I want them to have growing up.

This sounds fucking horrendous, it’s not lacking in compassion to provide consequences, it’s what we all need to learn to live in a stable society.

There was good reason for the system to start acknowledging that background influences offending. It should never have been a get out of jail free card though it should be, you fucked up, here are the consequences and also we will provide additional support to try to help you but the consequences still stand.

Prioritising the minority over majority rights is the problem tbh. Allowing a small number of people to continually make life worse for everyone else is going to achieve nothing. No-one is going to say “thanks for being so understanding, I’m going to turn over a new leaf” the kind of person who enjoy making things hellish for others is going to just revel in the freedom they now enjoy.

Have had three kids go through the state system in the leafy Glasgow suburbs, we never had particular issues but that appears to be down to luck and strong individual teachers than anything else.

There seems to be a lot of horse trading of the bmas between different schools. In S3 a new lad appeared in DD's year from a nearby school and one of the disruptive students fom her year was sent away. When he started truanting the same year nobosy was particularly interested in chasing that up as they'd rather he wasn't in the school. In another class a child was transferred into my youngest's year in P2 after doing P1 at another school, he was a total nightmare, but luckily the head recognised it right away and the school had the resource to be able to provide him with a dedicated classroom assistant so the very second he started kicking off he was taken out so the others weren't disrupted.

The problem is in other schools where there are mutiple kids with behavioural issues in the same class and no staff. DD is now a student teacher and her last placement was in a very rough are in a P5 class with several students like this. No funding for extra classroom assistants but hey, they all had an iPad each.

Yes the whole of Scotland.
The SNP shut the PRUs and then made it illegal to expell a child that didn't have another school willing to take on the violent shits, so its now basically impossible to expell a violent child as its no longer the parents job to find a new school after expulsion its the expelling schools job before they can expell the kid and guess what no school wants these thugs.
All of this came in around the same time as the age of criminal responsibility was raised from 10 (as it still is in the rest of the uk) to 12 and brought in several bills that require under 16s not to be jailed for anything short of murder (even rape gets diversion from prosecution) and 16-19 year olds are getting the same kid gloves approach with jail as the last resort again rape getting diversion from prosecution and 20-25 year olds again the main goal is keeping them out of jail and yes rapists were getting diversion from prosecution aswell. Oh and if all of that wasn't bad enough being under 25 means that your brain isn't fully developed so you get an automatic reduction in any sentence.
Now after public outcry over rapists being let off scot free (even where theres multiple victims and enough evidence to go to crt) they've finally banned the use of diversion from prosecution for rapists over 19 and those under but only where the rapist uses a weapon or drugs to subdue their victims, so a 18 year old man can beat a 11 year old girl half to death rape her and still get away with a diversion from prosecution because he didn't drug her or use a knife.
This is why Scotland is so fucked.
Oh and FYI at 12 they say children no longer need any parental involvement in medical decisions or have any need for parents to know that their child has socially transitioned or been referred to Sandyford gender clinic and under the now repealed GRR bill could get a GRC at 16 with self id, but still aren't responsible for their criminal actions until they are 25🤬🤬🤬🤬

"No funding for extra classroom assistants but hey, they all had an iPad each."

Ah yes, the Ipads.

DS has dysgraphia. He cannot write legibly. I had to go into the school and argue for him to be allowed to use the iPad as a "reasonable adjustment".
They wanted him to use a pencil.
This is in an ASL unit. I'm a school that has issued everyone with an Ipad.
He still had to have the Ipad with him though. Because there is an app on it that monitors toilet use.

DD has dyslexia. She goes to the gaelic school. Every kid in her school has been issued with an Ipad. There is one gaelic spell checker. It is not compatible with Ipads.

Not to mention that they've been disabled to only use two or three "educational" apps.

So if you discover some piece of assistive technology that works on an Ipad, you have to ask the teachers to lobby the local authority to put it on a list of approved apps.
We got there in the end for Touch Type Read Spell. But have given up on Modmath.

Yes of course. Handwringing lefties and liberals realised they weren't popular so joined the Conservatives. Why do you think Reform are so popular and alot of former Tory voters say they'll never vote for them again? What I've found out on here is terrible, I grew up on a rough estate and even in the 80s the police were soft on criminals - I could never understand this point of view but think it comes from mc people as these are luxury beliefs and total inability to empathise with decent non-criminal people

Idk about parties but institutions and the way various crimes have happened have suffered from the left’s approach. VC and also AR.

I don’t see why wanting to focus on the perpetrator rather than the victims isn’t accepted as having a downside or damage to the latter.

When it comes to moving school, the SNP banned moving school -or even class -for kids in care without their guardians permission. This is why the child assaulting mine was still in their class - every day. My child was offered the option to move classes or schools, away from the friends that had been keeping them together for so long, but the bully had to remain in their class class in the school. So we moved school instead, to private which has been an oasis of calm and immense happiness.

State schooling in Scotland is an abomination in comparison.

This horrible word ‘resilience’. It’s just a way to gas light bullied children into tolerating being hurt

I am sorry whattttttt 😵

As someone half Scottish (born and raised in England) - my Scottish blood is shook. What the fuck is going on up there!

Good bloody question and its one a growing number of us have been asking for years

Does the Scots Government think it can replace parents entirely? Because a lot of the legislation over the past 20 years seems to be aimed at removing parental decision making from the raising of children.

Are any of them sending their children to schools with violent classmates and accepting that if a victim their child will be punished instead of the bully?

20+ years ago within my organisation there used to be a steady stream of applicants (more than could be accommodated) for our Scottish offices from staff with young families - the reputation of Scots education was a big draw even without family connections. Now I see the move in the other direction and its much harder to “sell” posts in those offices below the levels who can afford to opt for private if needed. I had assumed it was the academic standards slipping but wasn’t aware of the extent of the restrictions on schools managing violent children or the level of crime which goes through diversion processes.

Exclusions help the children being bullied and violently attacked - who are quite likely to be the more vulnerable children. They help the rest of the children to learn and see school as a place of learning rather than a place to keep your head done in the hopes that it isn’t you next.

If you are recommending specialist behavioural units to work with violent children and support learning, social development, home if needed and potentially a return to school I’m right their with you but the alternative is not to support violence in school for all the other children, particularly those who are already disadvantaged in some way and become primary targets.

Exactly.
The ones on the receiving end of the behaviour should be the only ones who actually matter in the situation, given that the behaviour is a choice and being on the sharp end of it certainly isn’t.

@C8H10N4O2 if you look up the named person bill you will see that the SNP did intend to remove parental rights from every single parent and hand them over to a "responsible" government approved person which was taken to crt and repealed as breaching the right to a family life in the human rights act, then they brought in the rights of the child bill which was also taken to crt and repealed under a section 33 (out with the Scottish governments ability to legislate) ruling. Oh and then theirs been a full on indoctrination programme with the Scottish government paying quangos and "outside" charities to lobby them into promoting extreme gender ideology which resulted in a convicted double rapist sent to a womens only prison because he self-id as a woman (along with male murderers and pedophiles) and they had to be taken to crt again to force them to remove these men from the women's estate.
Stergeon ran the country like a tinpot despot and her chosen successor (yousless yousef) was even worse as he was such an incompetent puppet and now we have fucking swinney 😭 and the bloody Scottish greens

But why? What’s with the decision to like into trans rights so heavily? I just don’t get it.

We have always had trans people and in years gone by they’ve been permitted to go about their lives in relative peace. Women were fairly ok with them in loos cause if they looked particularly creepy you could tell them to piss off, and trans people wouldn’t dream of entering women’s changing rooms or sorts as they’d know that was farcical. It worked ok. It was relatively uneventful.

And then trans rights activists started demanding things in a very menacing fashion. And women started getting really angry and fighting back, and there’s a whole civil war over trans rumbling on, and the SNP joined the clearly bonkers side. Why? Who decided that? Who thought that would be a good idea when it’s clearly bonkers? What is the motivation for choosing the (clearly) wrong side of history? It’s trans rights with no concept of womens rights at all. Not considered whatsoever. Not even given a passing thought.

And then we have the violence in schools issue, where some people will crawl over broken glass to tell you how misunderstood and kind but troubled these thugs are, and if we’d only give them a chance etc etc, without giving the actual victims, their teachers and classmates the merest passing thought. What makes you take your brain out to this extent that you cannot comprehend that their might be two points of view, two perspectives, and one of them (the women, the victims of the bully) is a hell if a lot more vulnerable and in need of support than the other.

The way some people centre only the thuggish bully and only the bloke kicking the door to the women’s changing room in cause he says he’s a woman. It’s just incomprehensible.

Yes me too, the town I was brought up in was in the top 20% SIMD 1 it could get pretty bad. I wonder if the east is now seeing what we did and it’s a shock? I don’t know what it was like in the 90s on the east I am sure that football violence was rife too but I know now that it’s got its issues but it doesn’t seem any worse and I can pass a gang of teens in my area and be left alone. I have however seen the rise too lately of the balaclava ebikers they remind me of the football casuals.