To ask how any non-violent child in Scotland manages to function at this point

[CurdinHenry]

The law now essentially prevents any intervention when an under 18 commits an offence

So we've got violent crime going completely unchecked (indeed it's rewarded with extra visits and promises of "resources" for the perpetrator). It's scary for adults but at least we can try to keep our distance in a (thankfully) ageing population.

How the fuck do kids who have to sit shut in a room with unchecked psychos handle it? Never mind the threat, which must be terrifying, but how do they process how unfair it is? How did we as adults let this total bullshit happen? Obviously blame Nicola sturgeon for yet another woke fuck up.

No, not sarcasm. It doesn't seem to be an issue for most Scots. Otherwise the SNP wouldn't be winning elections with 3x more votes than the next most popular party.

This article in the Guardian shows that exclusions in England have gone up by two thirds and the effect seems to be disproportionate exclusions for children with SEND and children in poverty:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/sep/03/proportion-of-secondary-school-students-in-england-placed-in-internal-exclusion-almost-triples-in-three-years

So a policy of internal exclusions/suspensions doesn't seem to work either, and discriminating against pupils with additional needs and from poorer backgrounds.

I think schools are losing the ability to make up for the effects of social deprivation at the rate and scale it is being experienced by children. Including them isn't helping other kids and disruption, excluding them isn't working in England, so I don't know if there is an effective way to tackle this if it's due to wider issues like poverty, violence at home and unaddressed mental health needs.

East Ren?

There’s a lot of reporting about this in Edinburgh and Glasgow at the moment - gangs of youths but I live in one of these cities (and have children) and have friends in the other and I haven’t come across anyone who has had any real life issues in the street.

Schools - my DCs school seemed to handle this well, my DCs were never bothered by any issues. The school catchment covers several deprived areas, is occasionally commented on in a “dear me, don’t move there, the school is low in the league tables” way on Mumsnet but I feel
fortunate that my DCs haven’t been subjected to the horrible experiences that other kids clearly have at their schools.

Id be interested to.know what posters here think IS the solution for these children who are troubled and have violent outbursts in class. Bearing in mind - history has shown that childrens homes for unruly kids didnt have the desired effect - they moved from there to prison.

Where their home set up is often crime, substance abuse, domestic and child abuse, non-working - excluding the kids from school doesnt always mean they will stay home and learn from their lesson. A child from.a stable, suppotive and safe background might well learn their lesson from exclusion - the personal and family shame is often enough of a deterrant to male.them behave.

Therapy does work, teaching kids about safe decisions can and does work. The kids are all our problems. I think we all have an interest in turning this behavioir around - which doesnt mean locking them away or excluding them - they just become our problem in a different way.

Excluding isn't for the benefit of the child that is being excluded. It is for the benefit of the children that are being harmed by that child.

Yes, I understand that the child that is being excluded will suffer from that exclusion but that doesn't outweigh the positive impact on all other children for not being attacked at school has.

Exclusion and home support. That imo is the only solution that is not ideal but fair for all.

Exactly this. Blinkered.

My Scottish DGC are proficient in martial arts for this very reason

The amount of learning time lost to our children because of the violent behaviour of some pupils must be through the roof. No wonder our kids are performing below the UK av.
I'd love to see the stats. from our utterly inept SNP
Those of you who continue to vote for them should hang your heads in shame for the failure of our childrens future.

Yes this seems to be the case. Yanbu op

For a start we need to remove the requirement to treat criminals under 25 differently than those 25+ ie no more lighter sentences. Remove the diversion from prosecution that has been and still is used to let rapists off scot free, do away with the requirement to keep criminals under 19 out of jail/kiddy jail.
Basically treat the violent little thugs as the dangerous criminals that they are and prosecute every single one of them, if they want therapy then give it to them whilst they sit in jail.
Reintroduce expulsion.
These kids know that they are untouchable by the law, school and parents.
Oh and most importantly drop the rights of the child crap taught in every Scottish school and instead teach civic responsibility.
Then we can start to look at the other issues at home that maybe in part causing the problematic behaviour

I don’t live in Scotland and am horrified and surprised by what I’m reading on this thread. Children’s homes may lead to prison, however, if there is no other option, I would rather an unruly, violent child was sent there and then on to prison than my child suffer the impact of their behaviour.

It isn’t just the SNP, it is the left.

They are just so nuts with their willful stupidity and blindness about not having any ability to look at things from multiple different angles.

They are honestly just failing democracy at this stage.

Policies need to hold the centre ground as much as possible and try to balance competing rights not just push agendas that are so ill considered and niche.

This last decade has been the worst in my lifetime for the most batshit crazy politics, right and left.

You know what else has happened in the last decade? Massive cuts on additional support in education. That’s why there are falling standards.

There are alternatives to permanent exclusions, which Scotland uses more often. The ethos here is, no child should be without an education so permanent exclusion is a very last resort. Managed moves are a better way of dealing with many pupils rather than taking them out of schooling entirely.

The law does not prevent any intervention for under 18s, it says those children will be dealt with under the children’s hearing system. This focuses on the wellbeing of the young person and on rehabilitation rather than punishment. Anyone who thinks that is a bad outcome for individuals and society at large obviously knows very little about the system.

We don’t put offenders under 18 in young offenders institutions any more, largely because it was found the impact on them was so detrimental it led to worse outcomes than for those over 18. This includes the suicide of a 16 year old held on remand. If a young person under 18 is deemed a risk to the public, they are held in secure children’s homes. These focus on care and wellbeing of children. Is anyone going to argue that’s a bad thing?

Exactly. Today's anti SNP thread

Dont get me wrong, there is still secure childrensnaccommodation in Scotland. They are used when needed. But the test might be tougher than it was in say the 80s.
I live in one city in Scotland and have connections to secondary school kids and teachers throughout scotland. The issue is not as severe as this post makes out

I think that kids who commit violent crimes should go to Polmont and serve significant sentences there.

Even the most secure accommodation (kibble house?) is no longer genuinely secure.

The solution is to reopen PRUs and educate them away from mainstream until they can act in a way doesn’t harm others - their physical health, their mental health or their education.

It’s like asking women where they want trans identifying women to pee. It’s not our problem to solve. In mainstream schooling my child was expected to be the human punchbag of a vile thug because otherwise the thug might end up in prison. I’m sorry, but get lost. His diabolical behaviour is not my child’s problem to solve. One punch and they’re out - for at least a year. Why should any child go to school in fear of their safety. It’s liberal attitudes like yours that’s driving school refusal. Who’d want to go to school when they know they’re likely to take a kicking? No one.

It’s not ‘discriminating’ against poor kids if poor kids are more violent is it? How many middle class kids beat up their classmates compared to working class kids? The working class kids are more likely to beat up because their lives are more likely to be chaotic. Acting to protect other kids from their violence isn’t discrimination for goodness sake!!!!

I saw somewhere teacher in state thought it was 25% of each lesson sorting out disruption. It was the number 1 biggest difference my child found between state and private education. You’re taught for the entire lesson, not 75% of it.

You see none of what you have said centres anyone but the thug. At what point do you consider - if at all - what’s best for wider society?

Or…SNP really are woeful at governing. Bad. So bad it’s embarrassing.

Why would someone consider moving countries because of their experience in one school? One school in one area isn’t indicative of a whole countries schooling.

I would suggest your friend finds a different school, rather than uproot their family yet again - unless this is a persistent issue. In which case that would be odd…

See, your post is basically the problem with the system as it stands. All thought is towards the violent, disruptive child, and none towards the victims of their behaviour.