Where are all of the Labour voters in real life?!

[PBEEBIES]

I grew up on a council estate. I would say the majority of the people here were very “I’m happy for people to come to this country, but those who come over and don’t work/don’t assimilate are unwelcome” as their main political belief. Despite being a poor area with the majority of people on some form of benefit, they believed that people who work shouldn’t have to pay super high levels of tax and people should be able to keep what they earn etc.

I went to university and associated with “posher” people for the first time. I would say the political beliefs held by these people were very similar to those held by the people I grew up around. I met a few people that were stronger to the left and right here, but to generalise, the majority were all pretty middle of the road/right leaning in the same way that they were on my council estate.

I now have a well paid professional job and live in quite a “posh” area. The people here again, generally hold the same views as everybody at my university and the council estate I grew up on. Probably slightly more right leaning, but all pretty similar on their thoughts on immigration, taxation, government spending priorities etc. We’ve recently completed a house renovation and if ever the topic of politics came up with the tradesmen we were using (eg. If the news was on when we were in the same room), the general consensus was still the same. I have also noticed that 99% of people I have spoken to all seem to be anti Covid vaccine/think that there was some kind of government conspiracy with hiding the negative effects of the vaccine - this is ranging from the drs I know, to the tradesmen, shop assistants, students etc (not just a small section of society).

I’m suprised that considering I’ve lived in multiple cities in both rich and poor areas, socialised with and have friends in professional careers as well as tradesmen, students, across all ages… most people I encounter seem to all hold the same political views.

I have genuinely only ever met a few truly left wing people in my life, in real life. For example, I’ve never met anyone in real life who has stood up and said “I think that we should take asylum seekers as they’re at risk in their own countries” even though this isn’t extreme! I’ve never met anyone who has said “I think that our taxes should be raised so that we can improve public services”, or “I think it’s really important that we spend on making our country more energy efficient as this is important for eradicating climate change”. How is this possible?! Everyone I’ve ever discussed politics with across a wide range of social classes , careers, ages, locations has always been centre/right.

Please don’t focus on the fact that I’ve used immigration as an example throughout this, it was just one of the stronger examples that I can think of! Another example would be the trans issue - I’ve never met anyone who thinks anything other than “trans people are free to do whatever they like, but sex is a biological fact that you cannot change”.

What does that have to do with my post?

I will never vote Labour - they are too keen to give tax payer's money away. Someone was on a phone in the tv the other day - on benefits due to anxiety - didn't realise where the money came from! Yes - other people are working for you not to.

It’s pretty easy to see. Labour have only recently moved away from more open borders. And that’s due to Reform.

I work for a bank. One of the big ones. Our headline tax rate is 43%. If we were based in the US it would be 28%. How much more do you think the UK can add to this bank’s tax bill before they ship all they can overseas? Is 43% not enough?

They reckon there are over 1.5 million people in the UK with no right to be here. Visa overstayers etc. If Labour even get rid of just half of them, I'll vote Labour.

And petroleum companies. BP is rapidly shipping as much as it can out of the UK due to the big tax hikes. In the same way that rich individuals will move out of the UK if the chancellor gets to greedy, companies will too and we will all be much poorer.

Some of the vaccines caused harm to some groups. The guidelines were changed. The harm caused by Covid vastly exceeded the harm caused by the vaccines. I want anyone living in abject poverty. I want everyone to have access to jobs, housing, healthcare and education and if that means that I have to pay more tax then so be it. I'm a member of the Labour Party.

I'm a left wing Labour voter but highly unlikely to mention it to you in a casual social interaction. If I met you in a social situation and you shared right wing views I doubt I'd bother arguing with you unless they were extreme or offensive, so you'd be none the wiser that you'd met a Labour voter.
Moderate left leaning people don't go round ranting about wanting open borders (we mostly want some immigration control ourselves) in the way that right wing people are often compelled to complain about immigration, or pontificate about raising taxes in the way people do about cutting benefits
You think everyone is right wing because right wing people are louder about it than moderate left leaning Labour voters.

I worked in a political environment for 25 years and find the whole subject fascinating

As others have suggested it's about circles and most of the people I engage with regularly have the same interests, so I do have a pretty fair idea of their viewpoints

I also volunteer in an organisation where most are left leaning.

And I do tend to find, in general, that, apart from with nodding acquaintances, politics comes into the conversation sooner or later

But that's just my experience. 😀

The “ happy as long as people work “ is an odd one for you to feel isn’t a labour voting persons opinion -

perhaps the difference is that the average Labour voter is aware that the vast majority of immigrants are hard working and want to assimilate. On average immigrants take LESS in benefits than people born here - we could argue it’s the average Brit who needs to become more hardworking - and assimilation fails especially when you have a hostile environment- which the right wing have given us

so you initial premise is riddled with so many flaws it’s hard to know where to start really

I doubt it. Again it depends on where people are.

People here deep comfortable expressing left wing views as it’s predominantly left voting.

Well no it wasn’t easy to see unless you were going to point out a time Labour had had an ‘open borders’ policy. Not least because the ‘Boriswave’ is the most current example of high numbers of immigration and - unless it was the case under Corbyn - I do not recall Labour advocating for fewer restrictions on immigration. Even when EU expansion happened free movement of people was restricted to… EU member states. So restricted. It might have been more immigration than people liked but it wasn’t open borders. There is no reason why being a Labour voter would mean you promote totally uncontrolled immigration. I know because I have voted Labour and wouldn’t vote for that lol

That sounds about right considering the state of inept plebs who are more concerned with their seats. Stopped watching political news and so called party candidates manifestos when they get elected.

All words mean nothing as this country is being run down in its current state

Most people don't want to talk about politics much if at all, let alone tell you how they voted.

Look back to Blair. And then Starmer and Cooper in early days.

Starmer found it hard to not insult large parts of the electorate on the issue, hence he was ousted. And Cooper was refugees welcome until Mahmood got in.

I am your neighbour I think! I’ve voted Labour for years for local elections - not necessarily because I agree with everything but I do like the standing MP and the MSP spoke at my daughter’s school and was lovely so I voted for him too.

I haven’t read through it all but I live in edinburgh and work at a university here so it’s all labour, SNP and Green. Lots and lots of all that. I have a neighbour who votes Tory (at least he did last time he mistakenly started talking politics with me) but I don’t know any actual Reform voters (or anyone who admits it anyway).

I actually still don’t really understand how the right convinced people that control of immigration and emigration is strictly a right thing?
I agree that once immigrants are here already the left will tend to want to protect the vulnerable. However, the massive inflow of people undermining wages potentially really is not a Left concept. Just because Tony Blair allowed and welcomed mass immigration into was then the boom of middle management to boost the service economy does not translate to immigration and open borders being a left fundamental?

I mean if you look at history not one very left run government ever allowed either the free flow of capital or people. And what I personally fear more from a really far left government is emigration controls, not immigration and full on nanny state and censorship.

This is interesting, because I agree with the statements you’ve made but I would place myself firmly in the left. It’s not just the statement, which we can all genially nod along do when discussing politics with acquaintances, it’s what’s behind it/what needs to be done about it. For instance:

Taxes are about right as they are now - for me personally, yes, but I don’t oppose the mansion tax, I think billionaires and big businesses should be taxed more, and I think there should be fewer loopholes for tax avoidance. I’d also like to see more evidence that the taxes I do pay are spent on improving public services.

There are too many people claiming disability benefits and criteria needs to be stricter - BUT the community support for people with disabilities who CAN work is dire, and public investment in this needs to be made if we want to support disabled people in careers

Skilled immigrants from all over the world are welcome as are asylum seekers who are prepared to integrate and not rely on benefits - which is fine if they arrive with a skill, but if they arrive because their home as been blown up by a British-funded or fought war then there needs to be a UK-funded framework to support them

Trans people should be allowed to present as they wish but you cannot change sex - but status as a trans person should still be legally protected against discrimination, same as race/sexuality/religion

We need more spending on public services and less on foreign aid - and more funding made available by higher taxes for the rich/multi-billion pound businesses

Prison sentences are too lenient - but to cope with the pressure longer sentences places on prison systems, prisons need public investment not private

To free up prison space, stop custodial sentences for first time non violent offenders - or ideally reduce first time non-violent offending by investing in community services, especially for young people

So you can see, I don’t disagree with your statement but if you put yourself centre right, you’re likely to disagree with some of the follow-ups.

Really, most people I know vote labour or Green even. I think it’s who you choose to associate with. I’m very pleased with my mp too, lovely friendly chap who has bought 8 doors down from me

Can’t go into now as it is a lot more complex than you state and you know that. All you have to do is go online to see how much tax is paid and how many jobs these corporations create. And it is not difficult to understand that these businesses can quite easily relocate.

Yes we need a fair tax system for multinationals but that must be balanced with making Britain an attractive place
to invest.

Brandishing around statements like ‘companies not paying tax’ is reactionary nonsense.

Your 10% and 20% tax rate statement
real isn’t as simple as you make.

It’s not ‘the right’ who needed to. It was the media, academia and institutions since the 90s.

Labour are switching now to survive.

I’d happily vote Conservative and have done when Ruth Davison was leader. At least they understand that growing the economy is a good thing, which Labour and the SNP don’t.

Hence Corbyn's indifference to the Brexit referendum. Traditional Labour types have long been wary of the EU as a 'capitalist overlord'.

But this refutes the OP's opinion that most people are right-wing; 'the majority are left'. Which is my experience.

Most of true card carrying lefties I know are privileged people. They have the luxury of being able to voice passionate views on immigration, education, benefits, the NHS and all manner of social justice issues but interestingly can afford to live, work, socialise and educate their kids in just the right places where none of those issues really impact them negatively.

They are clueless about how the vast majority of people actually live and yet their privilege affords them a greater voice.

This is why I agree with you op. I think the majority of ordinary people are moderate, centre right. But left wing voices often carry more weight because they’re seen as morally or historically superior. It’s no good taxing businesses out of existence and creating a bankrupt nation of people unemployed and dependent of benefits. We need all the things considered ‘right wing’ like wealth creation, high moral standards, border control, national pride, wholesome values and good defence/police.

People - a nation - can’t thrive without those things.