Where are all of the Labour voters in real life?!

[PBEEBIES]

I grew up on a council estate. I would say the majority of the people here were very “I’m happy for people to come to this country, but those who come over and don’t work/don’t assimilate are unwelcome” as their main political belief. Despite being a poor area with the majority of people on some form of benefit, they believed that people who work shouldn’t have to pay super high levels of tax and people should be able to keep what they earn etc.

I went to university and associated with “posher” people for the first time. I would say the political beliefs held by these people were very similar to those held by the people I grew up around. I met a few people that were stronger to the left and right here, but to generalise, the majority were all pretty middle of the road/right leaning in the same way that they were on my council estate.

I now have a well paid professional job and live in quite a “posh” area. The people here again, generally hold the same views as everybody at my university and the council estate I grew up on. Probably slightly more right leaning, but all pretty similar on their thoughts on immigration, taxation, government spending priorities etc. We’ve recently completed a house renovation and if ever the topic of politics came up with the tradesmen we were using (eg. If the news was on when we were in the same room), the general consensus was still the same. I have also noticed that 99% of people I have spoken to all seem to be anti Covid vaccine/think that there was some kind of government conspiracy with hiding the negative effects of the vaccine - this is ranging from the drs I know, to the tradesmen, shop assistants, students etc (not just a small section of society).

I’m suprised that considering I’ve lived in multiple cities in both rich and poor areas, socialised with and have friends in professional careers as well as tradesmen, students, across all ages… most people I encounter seem to all hold the same political views.

I have genuinely only ever met a few truly left wing people in my life, in real life. For example, I’ve never met anyone in real life who has stood up and said “I think that we should take asylum seekers as they’re at risk in their own countries” even though this isn’t extreme! I’ve never met anyone who has said “I think that our taxes should be raised so that we can improve public services”, or “I think it’s really important that we spend on making our country more energy efficient as this is important for eradicating climate change”. How is this possible?! Everyone I’ve ever discussed politics with across a wide range of social classes , careers, ages, locations has always been centre/right.

Please don’t focus on the fact that I’ve used immigration as an example throughout this, it was just one of the stronger examples that I can think of! Another example would be the trans issue - I’ve never met anyone who thinks anything other than “trans people are free to do whatever they like, but sex is a biological fact that you cannot change”.

I think it’s fake news to imply that people who vote for Reform are racist but I already know you’ll disagree because you’ve made your mind up. Maybe you should try asking them why they feel the need to vote for a party that has pledged to deal with immigration instead of assuming and labelling everyone.

I live in Makerfield too, and I have the same experience as you. Nobody I have spoken to voted AB in the By Election. Personally I voted for the Monster Raving Loony Party as I am so disillusioned with politics atm

Very strange that you don't know a single Labour supporter given that Makerfield has been Labour since 1983.

Burnham won fair and square and Makerfield rejected Reform.

The friends I know who vote Labour are those who grew up in families where everyone would naturally vote Labour.. They are generally older (50s and older). I have no political affinity and would descibe myself as pretty middle of the road. Husband grew up in family where everyone voted Labour and would struggle to vote any other way even if their policies were a bit crazy. I think younger people seem to be more extreme in their voting intentions (Green versus Reform) but the political landscape is changing rapidly. Currently I would say that I like Andy Burnham but I am worried that he is going to make some bad decisions. There are not many in the cabinet that I am currently impressed by but I am interested to see what John Healey does in the October budget. I quite like Kemi Badenoch too but I am not sure that I like all of the Conservatives especially after Boris. I like Tom Tugendhat and so I was happy when he became Shadow Foreign Secretary. I mentioned to a good friend (who comes from generations of Labour voters ) that i didn't mind Kemi Badenoch and she couldn't even say her name. I think the opinions that you grow up with have a big influence on your political views as an adult.

As a PP has said, yes first during the online Brexit debate and on many political threads on MN. Never in real life thankfully. It would be quite frightening.

@Slightyamusedandsilly says “Be up front then. Don't hide…”

But I do wonder if people like this walk through their everyday lives this angry and aggressive, shouting at people who have different views to them, or do they hide behind the anonymity of SM to verbally abuse people.

You seem to have an exceptionally narrow social circle, OP. I meet people in my daily life from all across the political spectrum, and I certainly don't see the very narrow pattern that you have observed.

I think voting for Burnham and voting labour in a general election are two different things here. People were rightly pissed off that their MP was being ousted for Burnham and the voting intention could have changed because of this.

It’s a thing on here where some feel it’s ok to drive different views off. When in reality voters across the spectrum do exist and are not fake.

I am a mature student studying criminology. If I voice a centre- or right-leaning viewpoint, other students scream at me. I have been called a Nazi, Mao and a bigot. My crime was stating that I voted for Brexit (immigration was not the reason I voted for Brexit) and that I don’t believe trans women are women. Seminars can become quite heated! I have found university to be truly disappointing. It has become an echo chamber with no critical thinking.

Same.

True, but he still won easily.

For example, I’ve never met anyone in real life who has stood up and said “I think that we should take asylum seekers as they’re at risk in their own countries” even though this isn’t extreme! I’ve never met anyone who has said “I think that our taxes should be raised so that we can improve public services”, or “I think it’s really important that we spend on making our country more energy efficient as this is important for eradicating climate change”. How is this possible?! Everyone I’ve ever discussed politics with across a wide range of social classes , careers, ages, locations has always been centre/right.

Really?? You're clearly speaking to very different people to me!

I'm a Labour/Lib Dem voter, depending on the tactical situation. I definitely agree with your first and third statements. I can't actually see how a well informed rational person could disagree with the third! The second statement is a bit more complicated. Some taxes should be increased and I don't think the overall burden should be decreased at the moment.

The majority of my family/friends/colleagues would agree with me. I'm an academic economist and live in an affluent part of Oxfordshire. Which possibly isn't where you expected to find your so-called left wingers! I think of myself as only fairly moderately left.

Well, I agree with SlightlyAmusedandSilly that this is a deliberately provocative post with the fake naivety you often see on this kind of baiting opener. I can't prove that it's nonsense that all the doctors the OP knows are against Covid vaccines, but my evidence is otherwise from all the doctors I know, and to me it just doesn't seem credible.

I suppose the OP's post could be just about believable but she must have met a very strangely limited group of people. I know people who vote or have voted for all the major political parties, including Reform and Green. And I know lots of people who enjoy a vigorous political debate. In fact, we're going to see friends this weekend who voted to leave the EU (unlike us) and are definitely much more right wing than us, but we always enjoy a spirited discussion about our different opinions and why we hold them.

Most people I know see the immigration debate (and crucially the way it is being framed) as a massive red herring to distract from all the real causes of our problems. I know loads of people who are extremely active around climate change and the damage it is causing, and equally loads of people who would be happy to pay more taxes for better public services.

So get in touch, OP, I'll introduce you to some different people.

Sure, but Burnham still won in Makerfield with 58.7% of the vote.

So if you don't know anyone who says that they voted for him, then either that suggests that your own social circle is very narrow, or it suggests that people don't feel comfortable telling you the truth about how they voted for some reason. Or could be a bit of both.

The fact remains that most of the people who voted at all in Makerfield voted for Burnham.

Conversely, I don't think I know any reform supporters personally! Though I did come across a miniscule number when doing door to door canvassing locally.

I don’t think where you live and job etc is surprising these days for Labour / Lib Dem voters.

@EasternStandard No, you're probably right these days. It's interesting how it has changed.

I’m going to reiterate what I said before.

That’s what people TOLD YOU
It doesn’t mean that’s how they vote.
Because the ‘I’d be happy to see taxes going up to support the NHS’ is NEVER going to be well received. Not now that everyone is squeezed up.
Not even going into ‘I’m happy to see taxes going up to support disabled people’…. despite the fact it’s a very left wing idea.

And the reason is simole. Backlash. Not wanting to enter into a political discusdion - That’s how you loose friends. Let alone with colleagues or customers.

To anyone? Anyone at all? Not even the very vulnerable elderly people who get it annually? I find that very hard to believe.

All this shows is that
-People exist in bubbles of similar people
-People don't necessarily feel comfortable expressing opposing viewpoints, and will often (tacitly) agree but may actually think otherwise.

I'm only aware of one (suspected) Reform voter in real life, but I know from polls and election results that plenty exist.

@PBEEBIES if your dh and his colleagues aren’t making a distinction about the various vaccines, then they’re missing the point entirely. Which imo is quite worrying because it means theyre basing their ideas from belief rather than research

And yes I’ve looked extensively into it. Because I am injured by the vaccine

Here!
I don’t disagree with work, working for people of course. But right wing solutions don’t ever seem to require companies to pay a genuinely living wage. Until you can raise a family on minimum wage, we will have to have top up benefits. That’s not supporting scroungers, it’s actually subsidising companies. Personally I would have a higher minimum wage for larger companies and only subsidize small businesses.
As for disability benefit, a mark of a civilised society is how it treats it oldest and its most vulnerable. I really have no time for people who really think these are the people who should pay more when companies are going around evading tax and making vast sums. It’s a moral issue for me.

So because people feel attacked for their views, they will continue to vote against their own interests, even after doing so in the Brexit referendum has largely been proven to be one of the major causes for the state of the UK economic collapse? Are people really that shallow?

cus I’ve rarely met anyone who thinks that about covid vaccine and most people I know aren’t blaming the immigrants for our problems - we blame the rich.

@Fupoffyagrasshole How rich does someone have to be before you start blaming them?
If they earn £100,000 a year?
£500,000 a year?

Yes I have experienced similar in seminars as a lecturer but I won’t stand for it. I make it absolutely clear to my students we will have open and frank discussions and ALL opinions are welcome (obviously certain rules are in place so hate speech isn’t allowed). I welcome diverse opinions and hate it when the room turns into an echo chamber. It’s refreshing to hear right wing views coming through if anything since the majority are left and some quite extremely left.