Where are all of the Labour voters in real life?!

[PBEEBIES]

I grew up on a council estate. I would say the majority of the people here were very “I’m happy for people to come to this country, but those who come over and don’t work/don’t assimilate are unwelcome” as their main political belief. Despite being a poor area with the majority of people on some form of benefit, they believed that people who work shouldn’t have to pay super high levels of tax and people should be able to keep what they earn etc.

I went to university and associated with “posher” people for the first time. I would say the political beliefs held by these people were very similar to those held by the people I grew up around. I met a few people that were stronger to the left and right here, but to generalise, the majority were all pretty middle of the road/right leaning in the same way that they were on my council estate.

I now have a well paid professional job and live in quite a “posh” area. The people here again, generally hold the same views as everybody at my university and the council estate I grew up on. Probably slightly more right leaning, but all pretty similar on their thoughts on immigration, taxation, government spending priorities etc. We’ve recently completed a house renovation and if ever the topic of politics came up with the tradesmen we were using (eg. If the news was on when we were in the same room), the general consensus was still the same. I have also noticed that 99% of people I have spoken to all seem to be anti Covid vaccine/think that there was some kind of government conspiracy with hiding the negative effects of the vaccine - this is ranging from the drs I know, to the tradesmen, shop assistants, students etc (not just a small section of society).

I’m suprised that considering I’ve lived in multiple cities in both rich and poor areas, socialised with and have friends in professional careers as well as tradesmen, students, across all ages… most people I encounter seem to all hold the same political views.

I have genuinely only ever met a few truly left wing people in my life, in real life. For example, I’ve never met anyone in real life who has stood up and said “I think that we should take asylum seekers as they’re at risk in their own countries” even though this isn’t extreme! I’ve never met anyone who has said “I think that our taxes should be raised so that we can improve public services”, or “I think it’s really important that we spend on making our country more energy efficient as this is important for eradicating climate change”. How is this possible?! Everyone I’ve ever discussed politics with across a wide range of social classes , careers, ages, locations has always been centre/right.

Please don’t focus on the fact that I’ve used immigration as an example throughout this, it was just one of the stronger examples that I can think of! Another example would be the trans issue - I’ve never met anyone who thinks anything other than “trans people are free to do whatever they like, but sex is a biological fact that you cannot change”.

I am a Labour voter. My best friend is a Conservative. Her husband is a Farage fan (we are hoping he grows out of it though). We all get along fine.

Isn't it? Can you honestly say you have never used any of those adjectives in connection with 'the left'?

@5128gapyour posts on what people can’t talk about with each other really doesn’t match ime. Sometimes politics doesn’t come up, sometimes it does. It’s all fine.

I think our taxes should be raised to improve public services OP.

Also I'm a floating voter so I've voted Tory, Labour, Liberal Dem and Greens in the past.

Obviously I wouldn't consider voting Green again with their current set up.

No I don't think like that at all. I'm proud that my dc are free to openly think differently, and I hope that upbringing leads them to be tolerant of different opinions themselves.
Most of the time, we all agree with what needs fixing, but disagree about how to achieve it.

Same. It’s more important to me that dc can think and vote freely as adults.

At this point, having a DC who even takes an interest in politics is a win!

Interesting you are not owning your judgement of 'the left'.

All the labour voters will be in their leafy enclaves with their coffee shops, bistros and boutiques.
Far far away from the 1000s of illegal undocumented men dumped on the tax paying public.
Oh but wait!! Hang on!! Andy Pandys gonna be putting them into the "leafy enclaves" coming to a nice street like yours soon!!
I wonder who all the Jemimas, the Annabels and the Peregrines will vote for then 🤔

I’ve just said irl your posts don’t match. If you only can talk / socialise to people on the left then ok, I just don’t feel the same at all. Relationships matter more.

I'm all in favour of tolerance and of respecting the rights of every member of society to hold different political views. It is a fundamental principle of democracy that people must be allowed to believe whatever they believe and vote as they choose to vote, even if we find their particular choices to be misguided and/or morally repugnant.

However, I can respect the right of people to hold particular views without necessarily respecting the views themselves. And I can respect the rights of people to make choices that I consider to be morally abhorrent while simultaneously choosing not to socialise with them.

Personally, I could never be friends with someone who holds views that I consider to be morally abhorrent. I don't imagine that many people could. I also don't imagine that anyone would want to be friends with me if they knew that I considered their views to be repugnant.

I can be polite and friendly to people. I can make small talk. I can work effectively alongside them in a professional environment. But if I think their values are fundamentally incompatible with mine, then I can choose not to have them as part of my inner circle. As indeed they can freely choose not to have me as part of theirs.

I have no idea what you're referring to by 'your posts about what people cant talk about'. I find the constant implication that all left wing people tell people what they can and can't say tiresome in the extreme.
Of course people talk about contentious topics and of course they are able to do so in a way that signals respect.
However to deny the private judgment of those views is disingenuous.

There is a proposal to house some asylum seekers in my area, just round the corner from me (repurposing a disused old people's home). I have no issues with that. Most asylum seekers are not demonic criminals or rapists. I will still vote Labour. My name is not Jemima or Annabel.

It’s your posts I’m reading. The idea that the pp couldn’t deal with a conversation re TWAW etc, it happens often. What you’re posting doesn’t match ime

My posts don't match for you because you are inventing the content. I have not said I can only talk to people on the left. Nor that you can only talk to those on the right.
I've said very clearly that people judge those from 'the other side' and listed adjectives I have seen used to describe 'the left' that are in no way respectful.
I've no doubt at all you can have relationships with people with the views you use those terms about. Because you wouldn't use those terms to their face. But you use them about them nonetheless.

This post is what I mean. This stuff has been discussed and the conviviality was fine.

The question was asked and I answered. My politics are nothing to do with you, as yours are nothing to do with me…. tho it’s not difficult to guess where you stand.
Your grammar, however, is another matter 😂
I’d love it if you could expand on “all that’s been going on with labour” and “the taxes” and “leaning towards green”?

“Oh but wait!! Hang on!! Andy Pandys gonna be putting them into the "leafy enclaves" coming to a nice street like yours soon!!”

@Dollymylove - he won’t, because he can’t afford it. There is another energy crisis, black abyss, increase in sovereign debt cost, AI financial crash looming. That is why the press keep showing images of him sweating, it is because he is going to be sweating quite soon.

I feel like right and left has lost a lot of meaning, having become so entrenched with a host of opinions that people seem required to adhere to. I think it is bad for us to lose the ability to have different opinions, and be able to discuss these.

I would consider myself left wing as I consider a good society should involve an element if collectivism, and the state should facilitate this. Without being full communist, the kind of social democracy that has existed in a lot of western nations since ww2.

The socially progressive side is far more wooly, and where we risk alienating people. I am not required to agree with all those things you listed to self describe as left wing. I do believe generally in equality and support for the less privileged, but in your eg trans example I am what I think people call gender critical as I see this an encroaching on woman's rights. I believe as a rich country (especially as one that has impacted less developed regions) we are morally obliged to accept some level of asylum seeking and immigration (indeed i believe we have signed international agreements to oblige us to assess asylum seekers claims), but I don't believe we are obliged to accept limitless numbers and with no structure around it. Although incidentally I also don't believe we are being overrun.

I took the COVID vaccine and most medical professionals I know were very supportive (and I know a lot, from a family of doctors and with many hcp friends). I don't think anyone loves the idea of personally paying more tax, but I believe in tax supporting society (see my point on state above), so I agree with the principle.

I don't feel like any of this conflicts with my political ideology

Ok, you do you.
I don't see myself as having superior morals to someone of the opposite politics. Certainly not my own husband and children. There is a lot more to a person than how they vote imo.
My Green voting dc was elated at the prospect of Zack Polanski standing and winning in Starmer's seat yesterday. They were happy to share that with me, and I was happy to see their excitement. They were then happy to listen to my glowing review of Kemi. Its quite normal in my house.

I also agree there should be an element of collectivism - however, it necessitates individual responsibility to want to repay or be grateful for that and to want to contribute into it, as a when you come. Especially if you have benefitted yourself. Even for asylum seekers, there needs to be a moral code that it is a true privilege not a right and a debt to be repaid, just as it is for anyone who gets help from the state. There needs to be gratitude and a willingness to contribute from all, not just entitlement.

Perhaps those issues are not ones you feel strongly about then. However I'm sure if you were a person who felt strongly about single sex spaces or that immigrant men posed a high risk to women and girls you might struggle to retain a high opinion of someone actively voting against these things.

Good luck with that then
Here's hoping its families with children rather than men who have no respect for the rights of females, hang around schools and piss and shit in the streets

Neither are a good option.

Families with children will cost the country a lot of money between schooling, healthcare (including maternal healthcare) etc.

Although your description of the men can just as easily apply to British men