Are there still any responsible dog owners left?

[Cla7]

I just got attacked by three dogs in our local park when I was out with my toddler. Knowing what might happen, I always stay right at his side so I was able to lift him up when the dogs charged at him. They started to jump up at me and nipped me, luckily not him. I screamed at the dog owners but they weren’t even that bothered, just half heartedly called them back. No apology, apparently it’s fine because they only nipped me and ‘had they actually attacked I wouldn’t be standing here talking anymore’. I have red bite marks but no broken skin. They doubled down saying that toddlers reassemble prey and that everyone with a brain should know that, so why would I take my toddler to a park where dogs are around.

Am I really expecting too much wanting to walk in the park with my toddler and not get attacked? Sadly this is not the first time it’s happened. Where have we come to and in the light of dog owners not being responsible, is it time for stricter rules?

Didn't know toddlers could do that. But who disassembled them in the first place?

I’m not ‘on glue.’ And there’s no need to be rude.

Basic critical thinking skills would lead anyone to the ‘correct’ way to handle a situation.

If you pick something up, you no longer have your hands free to defend yourself. So yes, actually, it would be safer for the child to be on the ground.

Besides, the average height someone can hold a child at won’t do shit. My mum has a 12 (at least) year old cocker (so she’s old) and the little rat can go from a sit on the ground and jump into the boot of an XC90. And if that crusty old dog can do that, a dog that’s an actual danger and actually powerful will have far more strength to launch.

Picking your child up makes them more vulnerable. You unbalance yourself and no longer have your hands free…It’s basic logic.

But tbh, do crack on. The chances of any child being bitten are actually minuscule so this thread is ridiculous anyway. Your child is 40x more likely to be molested by an adult than bitten by a dog (based off the evidence on Google about the stats of these incidents in the Uk). And most dog bites happen in the home, so that makes the odds even smaller 😊

Offering to assist is bullying, intimidation and scary? Do you ever leave your house? Your perspective on life seems bizarre. Do get a grip, love.

Epigenetic inheritance. This might be of interest.

https://pupstartsbreeders.com/epigenetics-dog-breeding/

That poster has obviously never seen a malinois jump.
Also anyone who kicks an aggressive dog is likely to piss it off more and have it attack their legs/feet.
I love how these threads always shows just how ignorant of dogs and dog behaviour the haters are.
This 1 reminds me of the idiot who used to go running in the local dog park, running up to dogs from behind and then going ballistic when said dog would turn around to say hello or join him in his circuits round the dog park. This idiot complained repeatedly to the dog warden and police and then got really pissed off when all his complaints resulted in was a massive sign at the entrance to the dog park banning all runners from entering 🤣

I love how these threads always shows just how ignorant of dogs and dog behaviour the haters are.

Well that's hardly a surprise is it? If I'm not that keen on dogs and have no intention of getting one so why am I going to gen up on their behaviour? I'll hazard a guess that you've no interest in vintage steam engines and are thus ignorant of them. Or are you going to say 'Ah, but you're going to come into contact with dogs in public places so it is your responsibility to learn about them in case they do run over and jump up at you', thus introducing an element of victim blaming when anybody who hasn't studied dog psychology gets harrassed by them? In which case no, absolutely not, the responsibility is squarely on the owner to keep it under control.

I personally like the idea of vicarious liability for what your dog does in public - i.e. if your dog bites/hassles/slobbers over somebody then it's as if you yourself have done that and action can be taken against you accordingly. After all, we're always assured that all MNer's dogs are so well trained that there couldn't be any objection to this.

Thank you. :)

You should notify the police. They went for a human which is a criminal matter. My dog got into an altercation in a training class, with another and then other owner put her hand in between, my dog didn't know her hand was there and caught her, I was interviewed by police and given a Community Standard Order, which lasts for 6 years. If he bit anyone again, I and he would be in big trouble and that was with him having no intent to seek and bite a human he just had a disagreement with another dog.

If a dog bites you then the owner is already criminally liable, if they damage your clothing or property the owner is also already liable.
Please could you define what you class as harassment?
As for vintage trains I already know all there is to know about them and the Tardis as they are both my sons special interests (hes autistic) so bad analogy.
I'm not victim blaming but yes everyone should know the basics of dog behaviour for their own safety starting from toddler age ie dont touch strange dogs without permission, dont run from a dog (it will chase you) dont kick an aggressive dog it will only make it attack more, dont pick your child up instead put yourself in between the dog and child and use strong firm commands like stop/no etc and for the love of all things good dont squeal or scream in a shrill voice as it makes you sound like a wounded animal to a truly aggressive dog.
These are basic common sense things that everyone should understand for their own safety in much the same way we should all know about the dangers of playing on the railway tracks even if we have no interest in playing on them.
Also you should know the difference between an attack and jumping up (the 1st is a crime the 2nd is the sign of a poorly trained dog and/or a puppy).

Nope. Just like all parents are awful these days too

I dont think Ive seen, for the last couple of years, a dog actually walking to heel. Most dogs are dragging their owners along. Poorly trained.

Our dog was well trained but we still had public liability insurance for him, I think we organised it through the Dogs Trust. I think its should be mandatory. And I think that all dogs and owners should be registered.

You're right that it is not members of the public who are responsible for 'understanding dogs behaviour'. The example of the runner above is ridiculous, runners have the right to use the park without a dog running after them

I remember cycling along a cycle path once where dog walkers were walking and a little dog ran alongside me and bite my ankle. Disgraceful.

Also you should know the difference between an attack and jumping up (the 1st is a crime the 2nd is the sign of a poorly trained dog and/or a puppy).

Jumping up could be seen as the dog being dangerously out of control if it makes someone concerned the dog might injure them. Which it may well do.

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

There are a worrying number of posters (not everyone) who seem to be making excuses for irresponsible dog owners.

The runner in my example chose to run in a designated fenced off dog park ie for dogs not idiots who think they can run anywhere they want

So the whole country should be educated so that some lazy, irresponsible dog owners that refuse to train their dogs can keep on being lazy and irresponsible?

All dog insurance comes with public liability insurance. And if you have contents insurance, that also has public liability insurance as well. (Your dog insurance will likely have a clause that if you've got any other PL cover, you need to use it, which means your home insurer will often deal with any claims against you.)

It's a nonsense idea, isn't it? Owners just need to be responsible. Sadly so many people are selfish and / or pig ignorant these days.

This is where it all gets clear about how some dog owners on MN think.

Teaching safety and sensible behaviour around roads, railways, electricity in the home, canals and rivers, etc etc, is inevitable. These are all necessary features of life and the environment. There are hazards that accompany travel, power supply, natural perils and so on that will always be there and we all recognise that.

Pet dogs are nothing like this. They are simply a choice and only for the owner’s pleasure. Every last bit of responsibility begins and ends with the dog owner. If there is any risk or nuisance at all from a dog it falls to the owner to stop it.

It is utterly unreasonable to expect parents not to pick up a frightened small child who is desperate to be picked up. It's not possible to get between a child and a dog properly. Any dog likely to run at a small child should be on a lead. If you don't have recall, stay in a dog park or on the leash. Don't tell parents not to pick up their children as if they have options. I don't think some dog owners have really thought about the possibility of an aggressive dog being at the level of a child's face if they're not picked up. It might be the wrong thing to do for your poorly trained but non aggressive dog. What if that parent then leaves the terrified child on the ground for the next dog who actually bites?

Im amazed at the number of dogs that dont have recall.

The amount of owners who half heartedly bleat their dog's name is unbelievable. They just don't train it properly, so it's pot luck as to whether the dog goes back to them or not.

Seems that way. To be clear though: I'm not saying that it's not sensible to have a bit of knowledge of dog behaviour - unfortunately irresponsible dog owners are an increasing feature of life so clearly it's better to know how to deal with errant mutts that to not know. However the idea that you are going to teach a toddler to ignore its every instinct and not run away from a scary dog or scream, but instead to issue firm commands to the dog that might be as big as them in an authoritative voice...how are you going to do that then? Its ridiculous - I can tell you that just telling them to do that won't do the trick so are we all to put our kids in intensive dog behaviour classes before they're even in school? As is often the case 'better education' for everybody else is just impractical hand-waving nonsense from people who don't want to take responsibility themselves.

I'll also say hats off to the poster likelysuspect above who is clearly a genuinely responsible dog owner, it is very much appreciated.

A nip is still a bite. Given the owner’s attitude, they have no intention of taking it seriously themselves so you should absolutely report it to the police. I would have been on the phone immediately.

I agree it should however there are idiots and bad owners out there and its just common sense to teach everyone the basics incase they come across one.
I've already said that I think all owners should have to do dog/owner training classes but I don't make the laws so until someone decides to actually do something about irresponsible owners its only sensible to teach people how to be safe.
The thing is even when the runner is in the wrong by running in an fenced off area designated only for dogs posters on this thread are defending his stupidity and claiming its his right to run where he wants, instead of accepting that the runner was an idiot and in the wrong

Was in a pub in lovely walk area waiting for lunch. One owner had a long lead which became twisted around waitress legs, she dropped plates she was clearing. A mess everywhere. I'd definitely get rid of extendable leads, dangerous in foolish hands.