Lindsay Clancy was let down

[hds873banana]

For those of you who may not know, Lindsay Clancy is an American mother who killed her three children (all under age 5) then tried to commit suicide by throwing herself out of a window, and is now wheelchair bound as a result. Her defence is she was in the throws of post natal psychosis.

You can watch the full trial on Court TV. The trial is ongoing now.

She was totally let down by the system, the doctors, maybe even her husband. I’ve never watched a full trial and been so appalled at what I am seeing and hearing. Kevin Reddington her lawyer needs an award.

It is interesting to me because I have a close relative who I’ve cared for for over a decade who is regularly in psychosis. The lack of understanding of psychosis generally is wild. I My relative can slip in and out of psychosis on a minute by minute basis some days.

I really hope Lindsay’s defence lawyer gets the best outcome for her even though her life is completely ruined whatever the outcome of the trial.

Well, because

they have to follow her instructions, so she thinks she did.

why do they not blame him? Because they don’t have to. They have to prove she didn’t.

nothing else.

And because she did it, of course, and no-one whose brain hasnt been rotted by "true" crime and social media would claim otherwise.

Are you suggesting he murdered his DC and threw his wife out of the window. Wouldn't she say if this had happened?

I believe the theory is that he (Real Patrick) had a doppelganger (Fake Patrick) collect his mobile phone from the house, drive on some errands (so that there would be extensive evidence that he was out of the house at the time the killings took place).

Meanwhile, Real Patrick murdered the children and successfully implanted false memories in Lindsay's head, convincing her that she did it after hearing voices in her head, prompting her suicide attempt.

Then, Fake Patrick drove back to the house, handed Real Patrick the phone, and then he promptly called the police, while Fake Patrick make his escape.

I suppose I'm underselling it a little, because Fake Patrick would also need to match Real Patrick's biometric profile due to the Apple Watch tracking. What we probably need is a long lost identical twin who, in adulthood, has maintained biometrics identical to those of his brother.

I do accept there is going to be real egg on my face if the long lost twin is found, and Patrick's extraordinary powers of mind manipulation are established.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but there are significant inconsistencies and the fact the investigation was so flawed means these things are scrutinised because there is no explanation, even if one exists.

I'm not either but typically when a parent and children are killed the partner /spouse is always the first suspect. I don't believe PC was involved but the inconsistencies in his timeline needed to be investigated thoroughly to more accurately establish a timeline of what was happening at home.

The unaccounted for 14 minutes during which an email was sent needed to be explained. Did he send the email before he left which meant he left the pp house later than stated? The prosecution thinks she'd killed the children by the time the 5.34 phone call took place. If he didn't leave home until after the email was sent then she had 10 minutes to kill the children. If he left at 5.15 as stated then where was he until 5.32 when he's recorded walking into the CVS? Was he in the car sending an email from his phone? The defence claimed the email was sent from his surface pro laptop which was at home. Why was there no forensic examination of his devices to establish where the email was sent from?

It's easy to say it's obvious or irrelevant but if you want to secure a conviction for murder then you have make sure the case is watertight. Had the police addressed these issues the would be less speculation about the meaning of these inconsistencies now.

@FOJN and if she had finished by 5.34 that questions how the baby’s heartbeat was
restarted over an hour later.

I don’t think Patrick did it but he wasn’t questioned as a suspect and that just creates more questions. And people can sneer at true crime fans (I’m not a particular fan myself) but there have absolutely been men who have killed their families and tried to make out their wife was culpable.

If the prosecution had laid out the timeline clearly and plugged all the holes there’d be no speculation.

There was no speculation at all until a good way into the prosecution’s case when the holes became apparent to anyone following in the most basic way. And to then have the prosecution’s psychiatrist say that she had to be told she had killed the children etc. It’s been bungled and because of that it’s a complete mess and there is now no chance of a fair trial.

For example? It’s perfectly plausible that there were WiFi issues, he hit send in the email but it didn’t go through until later after he’d left on his errands. But then where was he for all that time? He could have been crying in his car about how crap family life had become, on the phone bitching to a friend, having a fag in secret. But without there being answers it becomes convoluted and confusing.

@Merryoldgoat I agree the timeline presented by the prosecution means resuscitation attempts on Callan started a minimum of 45 minutes after strangulation and as you said probably closer to an hour. It seems hard to believe circulation could be restored after such a long period. I have experience of resuscitating adults but not children and don't know if they makes a difference.

I think Patrick was having an affair and was in the car talking to his affair partner during the missing minutes. His phone records have been sealed but I don't know on whose instruction. It gives motive but no evidence of involvement and he is definitely in CVS when Lindsay's iPhone is recording stair climbs at the house.

One of the things I noticed was that Lindsay sent Patrick a photo of the medication required from CVS at about the time he said he left the house but when he couldn't find the exact thing he calls her to ask if a generic product would be OK; even whilst she is struggling she is still carrying the mental load.

@FOJN

I think Patrick was having an affair and was in the car talking to his affair partner during the missing minutes this is my belief too but doesn’t necessarily lead to murder as you say.

Have his phone records actually been sealed? I thought that was just social media hype.

Patrick's phone records were not sealed and a full log of them was submitted in evidence at trial.

Its just a lie the fetishists are telling each other.

I didn’t think I’d seen that anywhere reliable.

No, it looks like it was the only the 911 call that was withheld from the public and he appears to have handed his phone over when asked which is why there was no need to include it in a search warrant.

if she had finished by 5.34 that questions how the baby’s heartbeat was restarted over an hour later.
Lindsay Clancy's account was that she heard the voice telling her to kill the children, and so killed them, after the 5:34 call.

She said she killed all of the children after the call.

The prosecution argued that she had likely already started the killings before the call.

Nobody is arguing that the killings had finished before 5:34.

Phycosis is complex. Whilst sometimes people do not have capacity they DO at times. Its not a condition where you NEVER have any form of capacity at all its just sometimes in certain areas.

Where do you draw the line though? She had a husband why have 3 kids if you are struggling. I dont think PND is a good enough reason at all.

Absolutely agree.

Okay, to piece together the so-called "timeline ambiguity":

Patrick testified that he left "shortly after" Lindsay texted him the brand of laxative she wanted him to pick up.

5:15 PM: Lindsay sends the text re. stool softener

"Shortly after": Patrick leaves the home, hugs and kisses the kids goodbye, and heads out.

5:32 PM: Patrick is captured on surveillance entering the Kingston CVS.

That leaves a 17-minute window where we don't have a minute-by-minute breakdown.

The drive to the pharmacy is 3-4 minutes, leaving 13-14 minutes to account for (and that's assuming you "start the clock" at 5:15 exactly).

We know that he sent a work email during that window.

He says he fussed over the kids briefly.

He entered the car. He exitted the car. He walked a short walk accross a parking lot.

In terms of Patrick's whereabouts relative to the crimes, there is zero material ambiguity.

People fundamentally misunderstand why the defense raised the 5:24 PM email. Defense counsel wasn't pointing fingers at Patrick - they were attacking the prosecution's claim that Lindsay engineered a meticulously planned, predictable window of time.

If Patrick was still sending emails or lingering in the house until after 5:24 PM, it - arguably and only slightly - undercuts the prosecutions narrative of a cold, synchronized timetable and instead supports the defense's argument of a sudden psychotic episode. That's the attempted spin, anyway.

There really are no meaningful holes to speak of in terms of the investigation or evidence as to who committed the killings, the gaps are only as to Lindsay's state of mind, which is likely all but unproveable.

Arguably, it would be even more damning of Lindsay if Patrick was proven to be at home a 5:24pm. No doubt, that's why the defence didn't attempt to press it further - his job is to create "doubt", is all, and seemingly the most he had here was whether "shortly after" meant more like a few minutes or 10 minutes.

And, for the love of god, surely people know better than to believe unsourced social media nonsense by now?

No, Patrick's call logs were not sealed.

No, there were no issues with the home WiFi (his phone switching between WiFi and celluar caused Patrick a brief delay, due to being outside of the home and on the cusp of wifi range, of no more than 1-2 minutes, in calling the emergency services on arriving home).

Allegations of Patrick having an affair are entirely unfounded and, given their life circumstances, seem extremely unlikely to be true.

On both the Prosecution and Defence counsel's theories, his conduct was that of deeply caring spouse dealing with an overwhelming medical crisis and dealing with a "mental load" beyond which most of us will ever experience.

The smearing of him is just appalling.

Some off the wall stuff online. I suppose it always happened but now it’s read and shared more, and grows legs.