AIBU to feel our marriage may be over after deleted messages

[Poomonster]

Long post warning!!

I’m posting because I honestly don’t know whether I’m being unreasonable, or whether I’ve just reached the point where I can’t carry this anymore.
I’ve been married to my husband for 15 years and we have a 9-year-old daughter.
About five years ago, I found Instagram messages between my husband and another woman. I didn't confront him directly at the time, but I made a comment/hint about men and women messaging each other on Instagram. The next time I looked, the messages had been deleted.
When I questioned him, he said he had deleted them because he realised they might look suspicious. He completely denies that there was anything inappropriate going on.
My problem is that I can't get past the fact that, if there was genuinely nothing in them, why delete them? I know that doesn't necessarily mean he was having an affair or doing anything wrong, but once the messages were deleted, I could never know what had actually been said.
There is another part of this which makes it particularly painful.
Around the same period, my husband told me that I had become unattractive. I had put on quite a lot of weight at the time, and that comment really affected me. When I then found the messages with another woman, it inevitably made me wonder whether there was a connection between the two things.
Since then, he has become much more protective of his phone and, whenever I raise the Instagram situation, he gets annoyed and doesn't really want to talk about it. He continues to say he did nothing wrong and that I'm dwelling on something that happened five years ago.
But I can't get over it.
I don't necessarily think he had an affair. I don't even know what was in the messages. What I do know is that my trust was damaged, and I don't feel like it was ever properly repaired.
I feel as though I have spent five years trying to convince myself that I should be over it, but I'm not. Our relationship has never felt the same to me since.
I'm now wondering whether the marriage is actually dead and I'm just too scared to admit it.
We have a child, we've been together for a long time, and obviously I don't want to destroy our family over something I can't even prove happened. At the same time, I don't want to spend the next 10 or 20 years feeling suspicious, disconnected and unhappy.
Part of me thinks I should just accept his explanation and move on. Another part of me thinks that the fact that he deleted the messages, became more secretive with his phone and then dismissed my feelings is exactly why I have never been able to move on.
I also can't help wondering whether being told I was unattractive at the same time has affected how I see myself and how secure I feel in the marriage.
So, Mumsnet, what would you do?
Would you try couples counselling and genuinely try to rebuild the marriage, even after five years?
Or does the fact that I still feel this way after all this time tell me that the relationship has already run its course?
I don't want people to tell me categorically that he definitely cheated, because none of us know that. I think what I'm struggling with is whether a marriage can survive when trust has been broken but you never actually find out what happened — and the other person isn't willing to really talk about it.

Do you mean you found the messages but didn’t actually read them? The fact that he deleted them would suggest that whatever was written would have been inappropriate.

It’s difficult because if I’ve got it right, you didn’t actually read the messages but the fact that he deleted them, said he’d done so because they’d look suspicious and the nasty comment about your appearance around the same time doesn’t look good. I’d struggle to get past that too.

He told you you were unattractive. The marriage would have ended there and then for me.

I did read them. They weren't sexual, but I think inappropriate as he shouldn't be engaging in private messages with any woman. There was also a picture taken by said woman with my husband looking out the window of his office. The messages were obviously refering to some sort of "in joke" that they shared. What also hurts is that after I found them and then made it very clear that I was unhappy, he maintained this person on his Instagram..... possibly messaging after being so secretive with his phone. Just not sure I can get this out of my head and it's making me unhappy to the point that I'd rather be in my own than have this in my head.

I think you have answered your own question OP. It’s been 5 years. Your H has done very little to give you any reassurance or done anything to actively work to rebuild your trust.
In fact he’s done the opposite, deleted the messages, been more secretive with his phone.
IMO that is him proving his guilt.

You deserve so much better than this behaviour. And you do not need to be spending the next years always thinking about the messages or if he is still messaging her or some other woman.

I hope you come to a decision that is right for you and enables you to find some peace.

If you can't get over it, divorce him - you can't carry this forever and 5 years is a very long time already. However, I'm not sure that it has warranted 5 years of angst. There were messages that weren't seemingly inappropriate, he deleted them, it hasn't happened again that you know of.
The bit about saying you'd become unattractive - not kind but if you had put on a lot of weight, possibly true. I think that's a very difficult one - no matter how much you love someone as a person and partner, if they look unappealing it's would be hard to look at them in quite the same way.

I think he was having an inappropriate exchange with this woman - he's destroyed the evidence and hides his phone and that's pretty damning in my eyes. Being secretive with his phone even now implies that his behaviour hasn't changed, he's just more careful not to get caught.

I think that people can come back from an affair but only when there is true remorse and honesty. The work in rebuilding trust has to come from the person who went outside of the marriage. Even then, there are no guarantees - sometimes you can't get past it. In your situation, he hasn't admitted wrong doing, and hasnt tried to rebuild trust. And that's before you get to the horrible things he's said to you!

Honestly, I do think this relationship is over - trust takes years to build and minutes to shatter. You can't trust him and he's given you no reason to, really. IMO it's better to go separate ways and co parent civilly than to let this carry on and it be death by a thousand cuts.
If you decide to end things, then don't let him or anyone put the blame on you and imply you are breaking up a family over nothing - he did this then he spoke to you the way he did and when he started having 'in jokes' and messaging another woman. If she was photographing him at his office window, this is someone he knows. You've barely scratched the surface imo.

It’s done you read the messages he deleted them
they weren’t sexual you don’t think he had an affair
yet for the last 5 years your using this as a stick to beat him with
counselling is pointless I really don’t think anything he would say would resolve this

you need to separate it’s got to the point of no return

I would be very guarded of my phone as he’s living under constant suspicion and I wouldn’t put up with being constantly checked on then questioned living on a knife edge thinking could that be interpreted wrong

it’s no way to live for ether of you

It was 5 years ago he did and said those things, you don’t feel secure and trust him. Do you want to stay married to him, with things as they are?

Would he be open to marriage counselling? Or indeed individual counselling first? You can't repair a relationship with someone who doesn't want to. He broke the trust it will be him that needs to fix it but if he doesn't see the issue and sees it as all your issue to deal with then it's the end.

The relationships I see successfully recover from this the secretive partner becomes completely transparent and puts the hard work in to re build trust. From your post it doesn't sound like he cares. What do YOU want op?

I don't want to spend the next 10 or 20 years feeling suspicious, disconnected and unhappy.

This is the relevant bit of your post. Is there a way other than leaving to stop feeling like this?

Marriage counselling might help if he's on board I suppose. It might also help you split up in a less destructive way.

You did read the messages and you know what they said. It's not the content of the messages you can't get over (according to you they were not sexual but implied a friendly work relationship) it is their existence.
I think the bit that would bother me is the unattractive comment. However it would really depend on the context and how it was said. Was it meant to hurt you and weaponise your insecurities? Was it part of a difficult conversation (been there).
The only person whose opinion matters in this instance is you. If you can't get over it then you have your answer.
For what it's worth it the messages as you describe them wouldn't have bothered me at all.

Posted twice.

you sound like a doormat in your marriage honestly and you also stayed with this man when he said you were unattractive? this is on you. why didn’t you leave him then? i understand you have a child but you can’t just stay together because you have a child. he obviously isn’t that keen on you anymore.

I’m confused, your OP reads as if you don’t know what the messages said and you have to take your husbands word that they weren’t inappropriate yet you’ve gone on to update that you did read the messages. So surely you can answer your own question as to whether they were inappropriate or not?

There’s no mystery or question mark here. You saw the evidence, you decide.

If it’s been five years and you still think about it, paired with him saying something so horrible (if he said it because I’ve read into stuff people have said about my looks so we can’t know for sure), it seems somethings got to give

luckyhedgehog33

calling op a doormat is poor form, no need to call anyone that ever, people do t let people walk on them, it happens- it’s not the person’s fault it’s just what happened at the time

I’m confused- one minute you are saying you ‘don’t know what was in them’ and next you’re saying you read them and it was nothing sexual. Which is it?

You should have read the messages at the time. But instead you didn't even discuss them with him you just made a comment. No one will ever know if he had an affair but he probably deleted the messages after you made your comment as he knew you were aware he had messages on his phone.
To me inappropriate messages do cross the line but you dont know if they were inappropriate. Instead you've just dwelled on it for 5 years and are still and never will be any wiser.
So what do you want to happen. Are you happy in your marriage and want to save it or have you had enough and want to leave?
Also even with counselling how will you ever know what happened so how will you get over it.
If he is being secretive with his phone then simply ask to look at it.

I did read them. They weren't sexual, but I think inappropriate as he shouldn't be engaging in private messages with any woman.

I strongly disagree with this. I have male friends from work, and outside work, we message, why wouldn't we? And in jokes are very normal amongst coworkers. This does sound rather controlling and unreasonable on your part and that is perhaps the reason he deleted them rather than it implying any guilt.

I would be more concerned about the comment re being unattractive. And clearly you do need to do something to fix your relationship or call it quits. Would he be open to counselling?

So @Poomonster there was no inappropriate content in the messages you read you just didn't like the fact that they existed? Can you not see how unfair that is - he's not allowed to have conversations that you don't approve of? How did you happen to find them? Were you going through his phone?

Now, I do agree that a comment about being unattractive is a twattish thing to do (is that what he actually said? That he found you unattractive, or was it more vague than that?). However, I think it's the comment feeding your insecurity rather than the messages themselves. The timing of it is a bit suspect I'll agree.

And, I'll be honest, I would be a bit twitchy with my phone if innocuous messages were going to be interpreted with a predisposed negative mindset.

First of all, I am so sorry you are going through this.
I have had a slightly similar experience with my other half (although contact with another woman was confirmed and sexual in nature) and can tell you that it is incredibly difficult to rebuild trust. Remember though - it’s not you who broke the trust so it’s not you who has to work to repair it. That’s his responsibility - is he willing to do it?
yes, you need to take his word for some things and I don’t think you’ll ever truly trust him like you did before because there will always be a nagging doubt (in my case anyway), but it does definitely sound like you both need help to secure your future together.
I’d look into counselling - he doesn’t even need to go with you but they will help you process your own feelings and help you to move forward either way (without feeling like you are making a quick/potentially life changing and devastating decision).

another thing I found incredibly helpful was some of the videos and posts from an American couple I found on instagram and Facebook. If you search for the McCabe Life Marriage counselling, they explain a lot very well. They are both Christians and sometimes relate videos to their beliefs (not everyone’s cup of tea) but the majority of videos are not and I found they have a way of putting into words exactly what I was feeling. That in itself helped a lot.

I wish you all the very best and I’m sure you’ll make the right decision for you. Xxx 💐 💐💐

She did read them - nothing inappropriate, he just shouldn't be having private conversations with other women in her opinion

I think you have checked out of the marriage and have stayed married because of your daughter , but it's taken you 5 years to summons up the courage to admit it and to deal with the hurtful disrespectful remarks about your weight.and your suspicions .

Social media is the dearth of normal communication in relationships leading to all kinds of behaviours, self promotion of a perfect life, body confidence, etc. Too many people send and receive photos and videos reels of themselves having a good time, partying, or send comments, jokes, innuendo or flirty message to their enormous number of ' friends' and it can be very annoying and difficult to reign it in, even.ifvyou are only on the receiving end and especially when work colleagues start intruding into colleagues private lives via Instagram etc.

He deleted ithe messages because he thought they were inappropriate . And they probably were. But you don't actually know what they said only that they were from another female.
What else makes you think he was having an affair? Who was the woman? What other suspicious behaviour went on? 5 years is a long time to wait to bottle up your concerns. Maybe you should get some one to one counselling then couples counselling before you make big decisions about this. .

Bit of a mixed up thread op. On one side you say why delete if nothing in them, them you say you read them and there was in fact nothing in them, it’s the mere fact he chatted to a member of rne opposite sex.

the unattractive thing is Brutal , did he use those words, say you’re unattractive or did he say something like he didn’t find you as attractive due to the weight gain.

ifs been five years, ifs a long time to be upset over messages you read which you yourself say were innocent.

Tbh, it’s very tedious to be with someone who persistently believes you’re unfaithful and will read into perfectly neutral messages between you and your colleague just because she happens to be female. You didn’t talk to him openly about how you felt, just snooped and manipulated with your “hints” so he couldn’t defend himself or explain in an open conversation. You indirectly told him you thought it was wrong, then got angry when he thought “she thinks it’s wrong, I better delete them before she gets upset that I did something she doesn’t approve of”. You manufactured that whole scenario! That smacks of controlling behaviour and if the roles were reversed, people on here would be telling you that jealousy and snooping was a red flag.

The “unattractive” comment was very hurtful and unnecessary. But I think it’s a separate issue.

Edited for grammar and clarity.