AIBU to feel our marriage may be over after deleted messages

[Poomonster]

Long post warning!!

I’m posting because I honestly don’t know whether I’m being unreasonable, or whether I’ve just reached the point where I can’t carry this anymore.
I’ve been married to my husband for 15 years and we have a 9-year-old daughter.
About five years ago, I found Instagram messages between my husband and another woman. I didn't confront him directly at the time, but I made a comment/hint about men and women messaging each other on Instagram. The next time I looked, the messages had been deleted.
When I questioned him, he said he had deleted them because he realised they might look suspicious. He completely denies that there was anything inappropriate going on.
My problem is that I can't get past the fact that, if there was genuinely nothing in them, why delete them? I know that doesn't necessarily mean he was having an affair or doing anything wrong, but once the messages were deleted, I could never know what had actually been said.
There is another part of this which makes it particularly painful.
Around the same period, my husband told me that I had become unattractive. I had put on quite a lot of weight at the time, and that comment really affected me. When I then found the messages with another woman, it inevitably made me wonder whether there was a connection between the two things.
Since then, he has become much more protective of his phone and, whenever I raise the Instagram situation, he gets annoyed and doesn't really want to talk about it. He continues to say he did nothing wrong and that I'm dwelling on something that happened five years ago.
But I can't get over it.
I don't necessarily think he had an affair. I don't even know what was in the messages. What I do know is that my trust was damaged, and I don't feel like it was ever properly repaired.
I feel as though I have spent five years trying to convince myself that I should be over it, but I'm not. Our relationship has never felt the same to me since.
I'm now wondering whether the marriage is actually dead and I'm just too scared to admit it.
We have a child, we've been together for a long time, and obviously I don't want to destroy our family over something I can't even prove happened. At the same time, I don't want to spend the next 10 or 20 years feeling suspicious, disconnected and unhappy.
Part of me thinks I should just accept his explanation and move on. Another part of me thinks that the fact that he deleted the messages, became more secretive with his phone and then dismissed my feelings is exactly why I have never been able to move on.
I also can't help wondering whether being told I was unattractive at the same time has affected how I see myself and how secure I feel in the marriage.
So, Mumsnet, what would you do?
Would you try couples counselling and genuinely try to rebuild the marriage, even after five years?
Or does the fact that I still feel this way after all this time tell me that the relationship has already run its course?
I don't want people to tell me categorically that he definitely cheated, because none of us know that. I think what I'm struggling with is whether a marriage can survive when trust has been broken but you never actually find out what happened — and the other person isn't willing to really talk about it.

She does know. She says she read them and nothing in them. It was simply he was messaging a member of the opposite sex

i grant you it doesn’t make sense though.

This.

I mean it doesn't sound great but I wouldn't jump straight to LTB given you don't know he actually did anything other than exchange messages that by your own admission weren't inappropriate. I can understand your doubts and why you are struggling with trust but surely you'd be best to see if counselling would help before choosing the nuclear option and splitting up your family

Is this for real? If it is, sorry, why have you let this fester for 5 years! Your suspicion and lack action or communication has poisoned your relationship. You say you don't know if he had an affair but have done nothing but let this eat you up.

I'm on team DH here - it sounds like he really didn't do anything wrong - I communicate with former male colleagues in an affectionate and jokey manner regularly. DH. also has similar friendships with women- we trust each other, That you've endured a miserable 5 years of marriage since friendgate is ridiculous.
I'd also be interested in his version of the comments about your attractiveness as you come across as being economical with the truth - your early posts were not clear that you'd read the posts and their content contained nothing incriminating.

If you'd like to remain in the marriage you must let this go. Counselling might help. I couldn't stick my communications being controlled by a partner TBH

Do you just want out rhe marriage op, if so you can just end it. You don’t need to find reasons, it’s ok to say this doesn’t work for me and I’m not happy

I didn't vote because i wasn't sure which was which in this scenario.
But i would push for couples councilling. Don't walk away without i final effort to resolve this and move on

You've thought about this for 5 years, 1/3rd of your marriage.
Do you know if he still finds you ' unattractive '

The you're not attractive comment would have been the end for me tbh.

I think it depends on the context and how it was relayed. I mean, if you marry someone and the physical attraction was a big part of falling in love with them, if a few years later they had let themselves go/put a lot of weight on, wouldn’t you mention it?

You've spent 5 years trying to convince yourself this shouldn't be an issue any more and you should be happy. But you aren't. Do you want to spend even one more year trying to persuade yourself into feeling happy? Five years? Fifteen years?

There is no minimum qualifying 'evidence' or facts needed to reach the bar of "You're allowed to get out of this relationship'. No-one is going to come along and say "Ah no, sorry PooMonster, you only met 4 out of the 5 requirements for asking him to leave, you have to stay with him". If you're not happy then you're not happy, it's not like you've not spent long enough trying! If you want out then you only need your own permission. Yes, it's a big step to take with a child, but do you want to live the rest of your life so miserable and unsettled in your marriage? Would your child at 40 years of age thank you for staying for their benefit, knowing you were miserable?

the fact they was delete tells me he knew it was wrong, the reason you haven’t “got over it” is because it hasn’t fully been dealt with, he’s failed to reassure you it meant nothing or that your marriage is secure so it will keep resurfacing no matter how much time passes. He can not blame you for feeling this way when it was his actions that lead to it. You need to have a proper conversation with him and explain how it made you feel and how you need reassurance if after proper deep calm conversation you still don’t believe him then I would consider ending the marriage. A lot of couples do this where the past is always brought up but that is because it’s not been dealt with properly, if both people want it to work they will find a way. Some people just make a stupid mistake for what ever reason, the fact he’s stayed with you 5 years after it has got to count for something x

5 years, over 1,800 days, you've been brooding about these texts. What a waste of your energy.

To me, it sounds like he may have been bantering / mildly flirting but stopped when you called him out about it FIVE years ago - more than half your dc's life you've been holding onto this.

I think counselling as a couple is a great idea, if you stay together it will help your relationship or if you split it will help you build a foundation for future co-parenting.

First, I think you could benefit from some counselling just you, to get things in proportion and work out what you want

You could tell him what his behavior means. Tell him erasing messages and being touchy about his phone doesn't reassure you. Tell him how you have been ruminating, micro analyzing his attitude toward you, how this constant weight costs and drains you. Ask him how he would like to have a wife he did not know was faithful to him? Would he like to wonder about that for five years? Would he accept being dismissed the same way?

Can he understand your pain? Can he give you access to his phone? Can he explain what happened five years ago and what his connection is with this woman and unfollow her? Can he be transparent about what raises your doubts in his behavior or feels dismissive to you? Does he know the comments he made in the past hurt your trust in him?

Honestly, I'd be more worried that he happily told you that you were unattractive to him than about messages. That's really hurtful and I know when I've put on weight my dh would never dare say such a thing, the only concern he would have would be my health and happiness.
I think you have to back away from the concept of "is he or isn't he" having an affair and think about what you want, what you love about him, and whether this is bringing you any joy. Your post is all about him breaking the trust and him looking at other women but not about you or your feelings. If you do really love him, he makes you feel happy and brings joy to your life then I think you can definitely get over this issue. You'll need to honestly talk about it, and probably get some counselling to help you get over it and for him to understand your boundaries. If you both want to fix it, it's definitely possible. You both need to make the decision to try - reading your post I am not convinced you both will want to. It's probably easier to say "I think he is unfaithful" due to some random and unknowable messages than "I don't love him" - is that possibly what you are doing?

Since then, he has become much more protective of his phone and, whenever I raise the Instagram situation, he gets annoyed and doesn't really want to talk about it. He continues to say he did nothing wrong and that I'm dwelling on something that happened five years ago.

@Poomonster , this is the key paragraph.

If he cared about you and your feelings he would be prepared to be wholly transparent.
The simple, and obvious, fact is that he is hiding something. It may be significant, or it may not. But if he isn't willing to talk it through honestly and openly with you, then how can he possibly build trust between you.
Only you can decide if you can live with this.

My phone is open to my long term partner. If he wants to look, go for it but he'd probably be bored rigid.

Telling you that you were unattractive was pretty low. Was this part of what men do to blame the wife when having an affair? Yes. Thing is, you'll never know and with him being secretive still then it's not good.

The problem is you are staying in a marriage with someone who has told you he finds you unnatractive....just why?

Counselling as a first step. You need to make sure you get all of this out there and watch carefully how he responds.
It may well be the end; it may not. I don’t know any couple who has regretted going for counselling. I know several who have each told me how helpful it was for them; one even said she thought all couples should be given a few free sessions after the birth of a child!! So I’d try that first. Not necessarily because it will tell you what he is thinking (although it might) but it will also help you process all these feelings and see more clearly what you want to do. Lots of luck xxx

Sounds like you're looking for a reason to leave him.

You admit you read the messages and there was nothing sexual or actually inappropriately said within them. What you don't like is your husband messaging another woman, full stop. He's married to you, so therefore shouldn't be messaging a colleague, even if it's work related or mundane chit chat. You consider it inappropriate.

Your husband deleted the messages, yes, but you'd already read them, so you knew the content! So what did it matter if he deleted them?! You didn't like him keeping the messages, but now you don't like the fact he's deleted them either!!

You either trust your husband or you don't. There's no in-between. If you don't trust him, then you need to end the marriage.

Him telling you that he no longer found you attractive due to weight gain, is brutal. Do you still think he finds you unattractive? Did he actually come out with those words? Or is that the jist of what he said, but not quite in that way?

I think you need some counselling for yourself. To untangle how you feel and what you really want.

I don’t think there’s a problem with the messages - you said there was nothing in appropriate in them - I personally don’t think there’s an issue with a man and a woman having a chat via a messaging app. I have a few male friends I do this with.

The comment about your appearance is a difficult one, it depends on the context really, even though on the face of it it sounds nasty. Had you asked if he didn’t fancy you as much, or did he just come out with it out of the blue? My opinion would vary depending on the context I think.

Should have read the messages, should have told him you also now find him unattractive, ugly, and crap in bed.

When you start making excuses for them, when you need to beg yourself to make it work, beg for respect, and beg for trust - It’s done. Raise your standards, not your tolerance. Your worth is more than an uncertain marriage with a man who indirectly called you ugly.

The ideas put forward about counselling is a good one.
the comment about being unattractive is horrible,what happens when you both get older? Or he loses his hair?Hiw bloody superficial is he?
you’ve given him a child and at 4 yrs old which the child would have been at the time is full on mummy mode time. Did he feel a bit neglected being number2 in your life? ( in more bc ways than one!)
Never mind the messages these would be my concerns.

I think your marriage is over.
He hasn't reassured you and you don't trust him.
Focus on the next stage and how that will work.
Take your time so it works for you.