AIBU to wonder whether ADHD is normal and society is the issue

[LadyBeatriceBeaHiggins]

No offence intended

Discussing about Adhd with a friend who has Adhd and we wondered what if Adhd is naturally a part of being human and its the way society trys to make humans into machines that is the problem ?

so figured id open up our debate for fellow mumsnetters

The people
in my life who bring me the greatest joy, who are the most empathetic and kind, with whom I have the best conversations and can trust implicitly... all fit into the ADHD mould. We are all
different and this should be celebrated not medicalised.

A lot of people do though. I've seen them on here saying it was to 'help them understand themselves' and that they don't intend to pursue any treatment.

I'm conflicted because part of me thinks it's better to know and be able to research it etc, but the other part of me reflects that there are many others sitting on 5+ year waiting lists who do want to access treatment and are having to wait years so others can get their diagnosis and then do nothing with it.

How would you change the education system? Explicit instruction on the I do, we do, you do model for sciences (and a variation of this in the humanities) has worked for millenia and works for most people. What would you like to be different?

You might think differently if she was knocking out other kids teeth with a metal ruler like I was before taking the meds. 🤣 Or if she discovers weed at 15yo and smokes it daily for over a decade and experiments with cocaine and other party drugs in her later teens and her 20s. A respectable background doesn't always prevent this as people with ADHD tend to be risk takers and are very drawn to stimulation.

I read a study where 23% of the participants wirh ADHD had used cocaine in the previous year whilst only 3.5% of the neurotypical participants had. I also read another where they found that a quarter of patients in drug rehab in the US were diagnosed with ADHD. But perhaps these things aren't 'wrong' either. We just think they are because they're bad for you.

But if you look at the way they're defining social construct, these other conditions meet the same criteria they appear to be applying - can't be diagnosed by a brain scan and are based on clinical standards that are also very subjective. As is evidenced by the fact that they've changed significantly over the years and have been disputed, quite strenuously at times, and will probably continue to be changed and disputed. In other words, the criteria for these other diagnoses aren't unquestionably solid or objective either and that seems to be the basis on which the argument is being made, regardless of the fact that some people diagnosed with these conditions may be more easily identifiable to someone with a limited understanding of ADHD.

And nor are these other conditions necessarily more severe if you actually compare like for like - your post appears to take examples of severe schizophrenia and depression and then compare them with what are merely one or two of the milder traits associated with ADHD (that alone wouldn't come near to meeting the bar for diagnosis - even a "mild" one). I would suggest that you haven't really considered what having more extreme versions of these symptoms plus a few dozen others actually means for the people who live with them (or the fact that people tend not to share their biggest failures if it's avoidable but may be more likely to share the more insignificant every day frustrations).

ADHD has been linked, either directly or indirectly, to a higher likelihood of losing your job, experiencing marriage breakdown and all the distress and mental health issues that come with these things. To failing or underperforming academically and being condemned to vastly reduced life outcomes as a result. To being unable to maintain a romantic relationship or healthy friendships due to emotional volatility leading to social isolation. To succumbing to drug, alcohol and gambling addictions, to having your kids taken off you by social services because you cannot clean and tidy your house, keep your kids clean or consistently cook or prepare them food, and sometimes to impulsive, criminal behaviour resulting in jail, homelessness, road accidents etc as well as earlier death from all causes, including suicide. Many kids with ADHD are not safe when not on their meds as they are impulsive in a way that puts themselves and others in frequent danger.

It's not merely losing your keys a lot and paying your bills a few days late although these are the kinds of symptoms that people might moan about because it's what's happened that morning. All my friends know I'm always losing my keys. They have no idea about some of the other things that were a factor in getting my diagnosis.

You also didn't answer the main part of my question - can you think of any other examples of a social construct that responds positively and so significantly to medication in placebo controlled clinical trials?

Lol, good for you! I do not have the type of ADHD you have. I do not function at anywhere near the level you do but I'm glad some people have found a way to make it work!

What type do you have? Mine is 'combined with hyperactivity'. I think the hyperactivity is the bit that helps the most with my current job but was also the most debilitating aspect when I had to sit at a desk all day.

My understanding is that the inattentive variant is more common with women but I'm not sure whether that's still the consensus as last time i was reading about it (a few years ago) there was some discussion as to whether women just manifest the hyperactivity differently to men.

They do consider these things social constructs though. However, for some reason ADHD (and to a slightly lesser extent autism) are relentlessly targeted.

Also, fine for ADHD which can be treated, but what about autism assessment waiting lists? There's no treatment for autism, it's almost completely about gaining better understanding and you shouldn't particularly need a formal diagnosis for that.

I agree with some of what you're saying but in almost every case even very extreme ADHD is not comparable to schizophrenia. The episode of schizophrenia that the other poster mentioned wasn't even all that severe, just an acute episode. Most people have to take horrible drugs forever for the rest of their lives and if they decide not to (which many do if they're not being actively monitored) they relapse again.

I said previously how severe ADHD can get, and the consequences of this (e.g. like you say prison etc), but no one with ADHD alone (without comorbidities) is going to brutally kill a child because they believe they're being spoken to by God etc. The self neglect in people with schizophrenia is usually absolutely massive.

Re social construct thing though - there are people who argue there are no biomarkers for schizophrenia, it is a social construct, and there is a prominent voice hearing movement, some of whom claim it is a natural variation of being human.

Well, in that situation they wouldn't be blocking others from receiving treatment/medication.

I mean, paedophilia is a social construct. It was fine in Rome and medieval Europe (and currently in the Middle East).

I have adhd and I agree

I'm not sure I agree although it depends on what basis you're making the comparison. The multiple people I know with schizophrenia live with a very similar level of disability to what I live with on account of my ADHD, as measured by the PIP assessment process (while I also have other conditions, many were disregarded in my benefits assessments as I didn't have diagnoses at the time, which isn't supposed to matter but frustratingly seems to). In that we we struggle with similar things to similar degrees and consequently score very similarly on the PIP assessment scale and get (or would get) very similar amounts from what I understand (my UK friends actually get PIP and we've discussed it but one is someone I lived with abroad so I'm making my own judgement on what I saw day in day out). They have "moderate" schizophrenia, I would say, and I have moderate/severe inattentive ADHD but executive function is a big problem in both conditions. I also know or know of multiple people who are less disabled by their schizophrenia using the same measure of disability than I am by my ADHD. One even has a full time, high earning job and a wife and kids.

This is just my own personal experience, but if you look at the figures for PIP claim success rates, they show that just under a third of people applying for PIP with schizophrenia seen as their main condition are not successful. Compared to ADHD where around 50% of people deemed to have it as their main condition are awarded and 50% are not. While this does suggest that, overall, schizophrenia disables to a higher degree (or that mild ADHD is more common than mild schizophrenia), it does also seem to imply that there are a significant number of people living with schizophrenia who are less functionally impaired by it, than a significant number of those living with ADHD. Although obviously, as anyone who's been through the process knows, distress levels are not seen as overly significant - it's functional impairment and your ability to carry out the tasks of daily living and getting around that matter. I do take your point about the poster mentioning a case in which a schizophrenia sufferer was having an acute episode rather than it necessarily being the most extreme of cases.

If you're looking at how dangerous someone is to others, most people with schizophrenia are not dangerous at all (just looked it up and it's apparently less than 1 in 20 for women and less than 1 in 4 for men. Which is obviously massively higher than for the general population but still isn't an issue for most - I'm guessing those 1 in 4 men really bump the figures up for disability benefits awards). Whereas there's probably a lot of violent crime caused by ADHD, I'm guessing the perpetrators have been historically less likely to be identified as having it as it's not as obvious as the more extreme forms of schizophrenia.

That is interesting that these other conditions are also considered social constructs by some. But that as you point out, they're not in the firing line like ADHD is.

@catwithasunhat it's been really awful to watch ADHD be so relentlessly targeted. Also these people should be testing their argument fully by coming out and saying 'schizophrenia is a social construct' and seeing whether they still have such vocal support rather than doing what everyone knows they're doing and insinuating that a lot of people with ADHD are big fakers.

I wouldn't necessarily take PIP as a good measure to be honest for variety of reasons, and I'd have questions about what level of PIP etc.

I just can't agree that schizophrenia and ADHD are comparable. Executive dysfunction is so different from a complete break in reality. ADHD might be considered a mitigating factor in some crimes, but it has never - to my knowledge - been considered diminished responsibility, however severe it is.

A counter balance to 'The Great ADHD Myth' that some of you might be interested in. Includes one of the experts who was on that programme and felt misrepresented:

Share token

NHS spending on ADHD and autism tests rises tenfold

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c3f8a08e-05f6-4033-afae-ad3a59f2ba1f?shareToken=d30721aff6bfd59ea91989408ff702c1

Interesting rapid response from the BMJ

https://www.bmj.com/content/394/bmj-2026-100637/rr-3

I watched this the other day; interesting discussion with broad and opposing views.