AIBU to think that if DS is at "that stage" he can stay home

[Puddlewoman]

We are not having a holiday this summer we went away at Easter we will however do daytrips.

I have adult DC older teen DC and younger teen DC. In my experience they all get to a stage where they are arseholes when they come out with you. I'm not being mean they just they go through a bit of a selfish stage where everything that isn't completely about their wants results in them getting a bit miserable and making everyone else miserable as well.

AIBU to think that youngest DS who is at this stage and has spoiled the last couple of trips out, and the trip away at Easter tbh, can stay home. He doesn't need babysitting but an older sibling who is in all day of her own accord that day will be around if emergencies occur.
Heres the kicker though DS will want to come if his older brother is going, his older brother is firmly out of "the stage" and loves a wonder round new attractions, museums, shops, going out for lunch etc standard day trip stuff and we would have to say actually no you can't come with you spoil it for everyone else. Whilst that probably does need saying I can't help but think of him stuck at home feeling left out and sad because nobody wanted him to come.

I also do try to keep cheering him along when we do go out and have a word when we get home about his attitude but it goes in one ear and out the other at the moment. I know based on the others that all went through it that it is just a waiting game. We are lucky as this is the only negative thing we have in regards his behaviour

But maybe his brother is a good role model and on this occasion he will 'forget' to be an arse . Works with mine!

I think maybe you say this time about expectations and then if he is till like that hold firm for next time. Just saying you can’t come out of the blue(to him) will make him feel more left out than if it’s a direct consequence

I don't think you can leave him at home if he wants to come. Lay down some ground rules and include him. Or go somewhere that interests him?

I sort of think the day should be at least half constructed around the youngest member. It sounds like you drag him around doing things that are maybe too old and uninteresting to him, and then wonder why the "young teen" gets bored and shitty.

Aaagh I meant to click YANBU but did YABU instead 🫪 sorry.
YANBU. He's old enough, will be with someone, and at that age they enjoy a taste of freedom.

Go and do your thing without guilt ! It will be hugely better for all of you.

You say the other two went through the same stage, were they also left at home at the time?

I think whatever you've done previously likely sets a precedence here.

You can’t leave him if he wants to come.

As you say it’s that arsehole grumpy stage.

Our oldest ops out of most trips and holidays now unless they are ones he really wants to do but he is always offered a spot.

Most of the time I end up going I know what you are going to say but I’m going to ask do you want to come to…..? Eugh no why would I 😅

Well obviously if he wants to go, he has to be included. Just ignore the attitude (easier said than done). It’s good that he wants to go- shows there’s a real human inside somewhere.

Talk to him before hand, explain what the day will be like and there's to be no grumping.

He can then choose to go or not.

It's so weird that everyone seems to think teenagers will be utterly awful and ruin things, as though it's permissible behaviour? We were never allowed to behave that way, not were mine.

He won’t ever know what involved in being a ‘normal’ day tripper unless his miserable arse is cheerfully dragged round and he’s expected to buck up and get on with it. Let him come. Let his brother be the shining beacon while you compartmentalise and enjoy the family bonding.

We do always include stuff for everyone on a day out but its like up until that bit its unbearable and then after that he is done and wants to go home. Also when the oldest was like this we just didn't go anywhere most of the time. When the older brother mentioned in the op went through it he stayed with the now adult sibling at home and we just took youngest.

Why don’t you have a word about his attitude before you set off rather than having a go when you get home? Not much he can do about it afterwards is there? Give him the choice to come or not come, let him know what behaviour would be acceptable if he’s struggling (i.e. if he wants to take himself off alone for 5 minutes to regulate himself he can, but he can’t speak in a stroppy tone or be rude).

I think if he wants to come he comes, it is as you say a stage, he’ll grow out of it and you’ll all forge5 about it or have a story to tell. There will come a stage where he doesn’t want to come at all. You never know this could be a good day ( get older brother on side).

Could you tell him you are thinking of not taking him on the next trip because he was such a pain on the last one, but if he agrees not to be a pain he can come. See what he says if it's a whatever type response he doesn't go, if he sounds as though he will be reasonable then he can go. You know him so should be able to judge whether he actually wants to go and try to enjoy himself or not.

If you choose to allow him to come along you have the chat before you go. He's if an age where he can behave and if course he should. I'd leave him next time and see if that impacts.

Mine would just have a face on and be miserable all day.

Can’t force them to be happy and smiley.

Obviously actual bad behaviour would be a different but just general disinterest in a trip they are not interested in is pretty normal and not something I feel I should force.

Why make him come for a beach day if he is just going to sit with a face like a slapped arse and hate it.

Who is everyone?

Are you fitting in activities for grandparents or niche activities for parents, too?

I think these days out need to be focused around the kids, really.

But the other thing is that you might not be raising your children to be considerate in all ways. I had to speak to my client about this the other day. She was saying her daughter can be really selfish and I said well she has no expectation on her to contribute to the maintenance of the house. You hand deliver her breakfast and lunch to her room while she is on summer holidays and you are WFH, and then she doesn't even bring her plate out. You pay me to take her plates out each week.

This is why she seems so selfish and unfeeling towards others in other contexts.

She's been made to feel like going to school is such an ordeal that she shouldn't be asked to do anything else but that.

Did you do the same to your older children? It doesn't sound like you did. In your shoes (where I have been!) I would absolutely grin and bear it. You have experience of this very irritating phase, so know they do come out the other end. If you have lots of kids and have experienced this several times, it's understandable that you've almost reached your limit, but I think you should hang on and treat this last one the same, particularly if you think he will feel victimised if you say he can't come. Why not offer him the choice, on the proviso that he doesn't try to bring everybody down, assuming the older one who will be at home doesn't mind keeping an eye on him? Then if he ultimately feels left out, it will be down to him and he will have learned something.

Is the trip something he's likely to be interested in? Have you included him in the planning?

Id get the older teen on board to have a word if he plays up when you’re out. “ mate, (bro) you’re being a dickhead “ might be better coming from him rather than you.

I think you need to tell him after he’s behaved that way. Maybe before your trip tell him that he is being a mood hoover when you’ve been out recently and it’s not fair on everyone else. You understand he’s a teenager and having teenage angst but he’s not the only important person in the family so ask he be on his best behaviour.

So he goes with you on that trip or a different one and if he behaves like that you say ‘OK that’s enough. You can stay home on future trip as you’re ruining this for all of us’. And then stick to it.

Do you go by car on the trips? If so could you give him the option of sitting in the car if he’s not happy, take plenty of snacks as a hungry teen is a stroppy teen. I remember on day trips to Weston I’d sometimes stay in the car and read my book or listen to my Walkman for a bit while mum & dad took my younger brother into the arcades.

no we take the train theres games and his phone and our undivivded attention if he wants to chat about anything on the journey.
By do something for everyone theres 4 of us so there will be an activity based on what he would like, escape room mini golf etc then there will be something older brother would like though sometimes that overlaps I will pop in shops we pass to and from the activites and DH is happy to go for lunch somewhere. and we try and fit something cultural into the afternoon. In museums and art gallerys he can plonk himself somewhere if he doesn't want to come round.

Agree have a chat about expectations first. Tell him that you arrange days out with activities for everyone and if everyone can't be pleasant for the stuff that's not their favourite then they don't get to go on the next trip because it spoils it for everyone else. If he wants to be quiet/ go on his phone that's fine but (whatever behaviour he does that you want ro stop eg moaning, eye rolls etc) will not be tolerated. Alternatively you will do the same to him during his activity, asking if he is almost done, grumbling it's boooooooring, sitting at the side with a face on and see how he likes it