AIBU to think cannabis mention shuts down critical thinking?

[PearlsAreHeavy]

AIBU to think people completely lose the ability to think critically the minute cannabis gets mentioned?

Inspired by another thread…

Before anyone gets confused about he point of my post…

This isn’t about county lines, gangs, trafficking, driving while high, smoking around kids or any of the other extremes people immediately wheel out whenever cannabis gets mentioned.

I don’t support any of that.

I’m talking about cannabis itself.

For transparency, I use prescribed medical cannabis. It’s prescribed by a specialist clinical team, my GP is supportive, it’s grown legally under licence and arrives from a pharmacy.
.
And before someone inevitably shouts “this was written by AI”… yes, I used ChatGPT to help organise my thoughts. I’m dyslexic and it stops me rambling and making mistakes. The opinions are mine. The punctuation is not. Feel free to debate the subject rather than the software. I’m not here to defend me using a language model for its intended purpose.

Cannabis has genuinely changed my life.
Under medical supervision I’ve reduced other medications that came with a whole shopping list of side effects, some of which then needed treating themselves. I sleep better. I function better. I’m more present. My family gets a better version of me.

I have a senior job, I own my home. I pay my mortgage, I pay my tax, don’t have debts, and I’ve never been arrested. I volunteer at the local animal shelter and I donate money to charity. I’m making those points so that people understand where I’m coming from - I consider myself a decent human being who happens to use prescribed cannabis.

Yet the second people hear the word cannabis, critical thinking seems to leave the building.
“It’s illegal.”
“It’s drugs.”
“It ruins lives.”
“Think of the children.”
“Druggie.”
Conversation over.

Why?

Every substance can be used responsibly.
Every substance can be abused.
Every substance can ruin lives.

Someone taking codeine after surgery isn’t the same as someone addicted to opioids.
Someone prescribed diazepam for anxiety isn’t the same as someone dependent on benzodiazepines.

Someone enjoying a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday isn’t the same as someone drinking a bottle of vodka every day.

Alcohol ruins lives.
Prescription medication ruins lives.
Gambling ruins lives.
Food ruins lives.
Social media ruins lives.

But mention cannabis…

Apparently the plant itself tells some people everything they need to know about your morals, your intelligence, your work ethic and your ability to parent.

Why?

And yes, before someone says it…
I know it’s illegal unless prescribed.
That’s a fact.

But since when did legality become everyone’s moral compass?

It’s technically illegal to be drunk in a pub.

It’s illegal to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances.

It’s illegal to wear armour in Parliament.

There are loads of weird, outdated laws that nobody uses as the basis for deciding whether someone’s a good person.

Yet cannabis seems to be the one subject where “it’s illegal” is treated as though that ends the discussion.

It doesn’t.
It tells me what the law says.

It doesn’t tell me why you think it’s wrong.
I’m not expecting everyone to agree with me.

I’m not even expecting everyone to like cannabis.

What I am interested in is hearing from people who’ve actually thought about why they believe what they believe.

If your entire contribution is “it’s illegal”, “drugs are bad” or “it ruins lives”, you’ve probably missed the point of the thread.

I’m asking why you think that.

And if your position is simply “I don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t swear, don’t break the rules, therefore everyone else should live by my standards”… then honestly, please scroll on, I’m not having that debate.

Abstinence doesn’t automatically make someone morally superior. It just means you’ve made different choices.

I’m interested in hearing from people who can separate behaviour from stereotypes, evidence from stigma and legality from morality.

And one last thing…

I genuinely worry about the people who could benefit from medical cannabis but are too scared to even ask about it because of the stereotypes attached to it.

I know people in exactly that position.
They’re frightened of being judged and labelled a druggie.

Whether cannabis is right for someone should be a conversation between them and their clinician, based on evidence, not fear of social stigma

Smoking cannabis definitely does kill - Causes COPD faster than smoking tobacco, destroys circulation, causing gangrene leading to limb loss and eventual death if lung cancer doesn't get you first.

personal experience isn’t really relevant

Side effects are identified as a collection of personal experiences.

Scientific literacy in this country is seriously bad.

The plural of anecdote is, in fact, data.
Correlation is not always causation but it is evidence of a link.
Doing your own research doesn’t count unless you’ve followed a proper research protocol.
Theres is no such thing as “the” science.
Doctors are not, on the whole, scientists. They are not (usually) good at keeping on top of latest research or cost / benefit analysis - nice guidelines exist because we cannot expect them to be so.

It causes psychosis in 12% of people that use it, and the risk is extremely high for teenage boys with ADHD, who ironically use it to calm their symptoms.

I can only speak for myself and I'll tell you right now: I HATE CANNABIS. You will not change my mind on this. Why? Because the smell of cannabis has triggered seizures in me. It also more often than not makes me incredibly sick.

I literally have to carry sick bags on my commute to and from work because there is always some idiot who reeks of cannabis. I'm 34 weeks pregnant and only gained 19lbs of weight because of the sheer amount of vomiting I've been doing.

Now believe it or not I don't care what people do in their own time and their own space as long as it doesn't effect me directly or indirectly. If you work a job, pay into society, take care of your home and kids then shoot up some heroin before bed, I don't care: nie moj cyrk nie moje malpy. If that same person chucks their needles into my garden, then we're going to have a problem. Same thing with weed, the second that smell crosses into my home or garden live that objectivity is out of the way because you are intruding on my personal space AND putting my health at risk.

I would ask why do you want me to respond positively to something that causes me physical suffering?

I stuffed cotton wool up my nose when pregnant smells set me off. You can buy those swimming pegs to close off your nose which will help. It's a disgusting smell. Was in Leeds last week and could smell it in the street during graduation day.

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I agree with this.
I also think crime rates would drop, burglaries, shoplifting and prostitution, many of which are done in desperation for drugs.

If GPs could prescribe weed it would be massively abused. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. There are already enough people shamelessly playing the system who'd love free weed as well.

Now that's an insult to the medical profession

It's always either indica, sativa, or a mix. Well, actually I think there's a rare third type which nobody uses as it's very low yield/low potency or something like that.

I think cannabis ruderalis is usually considered part of saliva these days. (I learnt loads about plants, and then the taxonomists go and look at DNA and stuff and change it all.)

Hemp itself is a very useful plant. There's loads of stuff you can make from it, not just rope and fabric and paper, but you don't need high-THC strains for that. However, it looks like the strains raised for drugs, so it's difficult to grow (legally, rather than horticulturally,) because it's easy to hide the drug plants in the middle of the fibre plants.

I don't follow the line of thinking here.
Do you think "legalise and regulate drugs" to mean "available on demand 24/7,free of charge to anyone interested?"
Otherwise,would there be addicts planning their weed and crack prescriptions ahead and GPs deciding on what is a safe starting dose for 18 year old girls and 72 year old Grandmas with arthritis? What would happen if I fancy another dose at 3am? How much would it/should it cost? And what happens if I binge all my drugs money in a week day and can't get through the next three?
I can tell you what would happen : illegal night-time economy, gangs delivering to doorstep no prescription required, prostitution, robberies, burglaries, theft, shoplifting...

speak for yourself 🤣 medical cannabis user here, helps my adhd ,
makes me more productive

This is just not true 🙄

The term might be used broad spectrum by people now but it isn't just actually any type of weed, it's a specific strain.

Taken from Leafly:
Skunk

My brother has been working in medicinal cannabis production for a lab in Amsterdam for 10 years.

Are you for real? 😂

You know alcohol is a drug that is readily available everywhere with devastating consequences, kills thousands of people every year and has absolutely no therapeutic benefit but not everyone is driving about pissed or falling down in the street leathered or is an alcoholic mugging people for their next cider.

You can tell some people on this thread know absolutely nothing about cannabis other than what they've read in the mainstream media.

Where did you get this stat from please?

I have a legit question. Why haven't they removed the smell in any of these varieties? or at the very least reduced it's ability to travel.

Some strains don't smell as strongly and there are low odour strains but I suppose it's strain dependent.

A lot of the illegal grows that supply a lot of cannabis smokers are cheap strains usually bred for their strong THC and grown using chemicals hence the strong smell.
One of the reasons why legalising it would be of benefit (aside from the fact they can tax it) is to filter out those strains. There is definitely a call for smell free weed (in fact I would suspect most weed smokers would love it if there was!) I will ask my brother if that's something that they will be working on in the future.

I don't mind the smell myself (in fact I love it) but I know it's certainly not for everyone. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke myself and other people's barbeques so I completely understand why people don't like the smell.

I don't smoke weed, as I said I make tinctures and oils and you wouldn't know I was consuming it if you lived next door to me.

I don’t think I’ve actually argued that at any point.

I’ve never said every case was pre-existing, and I’ve acknowledged throughout this thread that cannabis can contribute to dependency, anxiety and psychosis. Those risks are real.

Where I think we differ is that I’m questioning the leap from “cannabis can cause harm” to assumptions about every individual who uses it.

As Ive already pointed out, some postwrs on this thread have demonstrated this point beautifully. I’m just an addict defending my drug habit. That’s the bit I’ve been interested in all along.

If someone develops dependency, loses motivation or experiences psychosis because of cannabis, then that’s a serious issue obviously, but again isn’t the point of my thread.

But why does that automatically become the template for everyone else?

That’s the assumption I’ve been questioning. Not the risks themselves.

I actually agree with quite a lot of what you’ve said.

People do choose unhealthy coping mechanisms. Some people become dependent on cannabis. Some people develop psychosis. Some people lose all motivation. I’ve never denied any of that.
But that’s still about the individual.

The drug driving point is the same for me. Drug driving is dangerous. Drink driving is dangerous. Driving while impaired on prescribed medication is dangerous. That’s because someone has chosen to get behind the wheel when they shouldn’t. That’s a discussion about behaviour, not cannabis itself.

What really caught my eye though was this:
“Even the ‘holding down a job’ users…”
and then…
“They’re usually boring bastards.”

That’s actually a perfect example of what I’ve been trying to discuss.
Why “holding down a job”?
I’m not “holding down a job”. I’ve built a successful career. Plenty of cannabis users are professionals, business owners, parents and taxpayers. Why is simply functioning in society treated as some sort of pleasant surprise?

And why am I suddenly a “boring bastard” because I happen to use cannabis?
That’s the leap I’m questioning.
The same thing happens elsewhere on this thread. “Pothead.” “Druggie.” “Loser.” “Addict.” “Waster.”

I’ve had all of those labels thrown around simply because I’ve admitted I use cannabis.

Nobody knows what I do for a living. Nobody knows how I live my life. Nobody knows how I contribute to society. Yet some people feel perfectly comfortable deciding who I am because of one word.

That’s been my point from the very beginning.

I’m not asking anyone to ignore the harms of cannabis. I’m asking why, for some people, cannabis becomes the person’s entire identity.

Because to me, that’s exactly where the critical thinking disappears.

I've a friend whose late parents took so many cocodamol for their pain in 80s and 90s. On Mumsnet this drug is evil.

Personally I think they'd have been better off taking cannabis because the pills destroyed their appetite.

But you are asking to ignore the harms and negatives when you rule out any that people bring. You can't have a discussions about why people feel the way that they do without allowing people to talk about why they feel the way that they do.

I didn't say that you were boring, I said that in my experience people who smoke cannabis have been boring. It becomes a very large part of their personality and that is dull to me. That isn't to say that you do this or everyone does but it is a pattern that is evident in my experience.

And you are correct that drug driving is a choice of individuals but it is a choice that is being made at a worryingly increasing rate. This can't be removed from the debate. Is there something in how cannabis users feel about cannabis that leads them to feel comfortable with risks that they shouldn't?

You can't have this discussion and meet negatives with "but that isn't everyone". It doesn't have to be everyone for it to be a pattern that people have noticed and not liked.

Congratulations on being someone who can function much better on cannabis. This isn't the case for a lot of people and the support around stopping use and dealing with some potentially devastating side effects simply isn't there.

Drug and alcohol services have been decimated, so increasing access to cannabis which you yourself have admitted is not suited for everyone is a risky gamble. This will particularly his vulnerabl individuals from economically deprived areas rather than people like yourself with successful careers and stable lives.

Yes, alcohol is legal, regulated and available everywhere and yet that hasn't stopped it from killing people, hasn't stopped it from being sold illegally, hasn't made it any less popular with addicts or teenagers, hasn't stopped it from being the cause of homelessness, begging, burglaries, robberies...
And yet, we are to believe that legalising Marijuana will have this incredible beneficial effect on everyone? Dunno who struggles with "critical thinking" but it doesn't seem to be the sober ones!

I haven’t asked anyone to ignore the harms. There are harms. I’m intelligent enough to know that and I’m perfectly capable of discussing them without preaching.

I haven’t avoided admitting them, I’ve agreed with them. There have been some very good points made on this thread and some posters, such as yourself, have been capable of having a balanced discussion.
Others, not so much. They hate cannabis, and they’re completely entitled to do so. I’m not saying that’s wrong. Some have also been very rude and quite visceral in their responses, and that in itself has been interesting to witness.

But many posters have also completely missed the point of the discussion and got really quite worked up because I asked a very simple question: why does critical thinking seem to leave the room when someone mentions cannabis?

That’s been really interesting to watch unfold.

You mention drug driving. I agree it’s a serious issue. But that’s still a discussion about behaviour. Someone chooses to drive whilst impaired. I don’t think anyone on this thread has defended that, and neither would I.

Likewise, I completely accept that your experience has been that cannabis users became boring because it became their whole personality. That’s your experience, and I’m not going to tell you it isn’t valid.
What I would question is whether that’s a conclusion about those individuals, or about cannabis users as a whole. That’s the distinction I’ve been trying to explore throughout.

As for increasing access, I actually think that’s a completely separate debate. We could have a long discussion about regulation, prescribing, public health and support services, and it’s a worthwhile discussion to have. But it isn’t really the question I asked.

I asked why, for some people, the word cannabis immediately seems to replace the individual standing in front of them.

Interestingly, someone earlier compared it to political identity, and I thought that was quite a good analogy. Once a label is attached to someone, people often stop seeing the person and start responding to what that label means to them instead.

That’s the discussion I came here to have

My issue with your style of discussion is that you use yourself as an example to show that "not all cannabis users..." but have no such acceptance of anyone else using their own experience and observations in the same way.

I don't hate cannabis users, I have seen a lot of lives ruined by it and not seen any examples of people who are functioning equal to or better than they were prior to cannabis use.

I have seen plenty of people who claim to be functioning as well or better than they were prior to cannabis use which in itself is very telling. Whether you are one of those people is something only those around you could answer.

You claim that cannabis use is working for you. The number of people with experience and observations to the contrary is huge. Both can be true but if I had to choose between one self-reported success or many many independently witnesses of negative outcomes to base a judgement I don't think I would be choosing your statement. Which is not to say that I think you are lying.

This isn't a lack of critical thinking. I am thinking, looking at the information provided as well as my own life experiences and have an opinion based on all of those.

I’d like you to point out where I’ve had “no such acceptance of anyone else using their own experience and observations in the same way”, because I genuinely don’t think that’s true.

I’ve acknowledged people’s experiences throughout this thread, whether they’ve been positive or negative. I’ve never questioned anyone’s account of psychosis, dependency, family breakdown or loss of motivation.

What I’ve challenged is when those individual experiences become a judgement about every cannabis user. They’re not the same thing.

And I’m not really going to apologise for my discussion style either. I’ve deliberately kept bringing the discussion back to the original question because that’s the discussion I wanted to have. It’s very easy for any thread mentioning cannabis to become another debate about whether cannabis is harmful. We already know it can be. I’ve agreed with that throughout.

I also don’t claim cannabis is working for me. It is working for me. That’s my experience, just as yours is yours.
You say you’ve never seen anyone functioning as well as, or better than, they were before using cannabis. That’s fair enough. But how many responsible users would you actually know about? Most have every incentive to keep quiet.

I’ve been on Mumsnet for over twenty years. I changed my username before starting this thread because I knew exactly what would happen if I admitted I use cannabis under my usual one. I didn’t want people following me around the site calling me a “druggie”, “pothead”, “junkie” or “addict” every time I posted about something completely unrelated.

Looking at some of the replies on this thread, I don’t think that was an unreasonable concern.

You also say there are far more people reporting negative outcomes than positive ones. I don’t dispute that. But the people whose lives have been damaged by cannabis use are naturally far more visible than the people quietly getting on with life. The latter just don’t announce it, precisely because of the assumptions this thread has demonstrated.

I don’t expect you to take my experience over yours. I wouldn’t ask you to. My point has simply been that we should judge people on how they behave, not on what we assume about them because they use cannabis