AIBU to think cannabis mention shuts down critical thinking?

[PearlsAreHeavy]

AIBU to think people completely lose the ability to think critically the minute cannabis gets mentioned?

Inspired by another thread…

Before anyone gets confused about he point of my post…

This isn’t about county lines, gangs, trafficking, driving while high, smoking around kids or any of the other extremes people immediately wheel out whenever cannabis gets mentioned.

I don’t support any of that.

I’m talking about cannabis itself.

For transparency, I use prescribed medical cannabis. It’s prescribed by a specialist clinical team, my GP is supportive, it’s grown legally under licence and arrives from a pharmacy.
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And before someone inevitably shouts “this was written by AI”… yes, I used ChatGPT to help organise my thoughts. I’m dyslexic and it stops me rambling and making mistakes. The opinions are mine. The punctuation is not. Feel free to debate the subject rather than the software. I’m not here to defend me using a language model for its intended purpose.

Cannabis has genuinely changed my life.
Under medical supervision I’ve reduced other medications that came with a whole shopping list of side effects, some of which then needed treating themselves. I sleep better. I function better. I’m more present. My family gets a better version of me.

I have a senior job, I own my home. I pay my mortgage, I pay my tax, don’t have debts, and I’ve never been arrested. I volunteer at the local animal shelter and I donate money to charity. I’m making those points so that people understand where I’m coming from - I consider myself a decent human being who happens to use prescribed cannabis.

Yet the second people hear the word cannabis, critical thinking seems to leave the building.
“It’s illegal.”
“It’s drugs.”
“It ruins lives.”
“Think of the children.”
“Druggie.”
Conversation over.

Why?

Every substance can be used responsibly.
Every substance can be abused.
Every substance can ruin lives.

Someone taking codeine after surgery isn’t the same as someone addicted to opioids.
Someone prescribed diazepam for anxiety isn’t the same as someone dependent on benzodiazepines.

Someone enjoying a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday isn’t the same as someone drinking a bottle of vodka every day.

Alcohol ruins lives.
Prescription medication ruins lives.
Gambling ruins lives.
Food ruins lives.
Social media ruins lives.

But mention cannabis…

Apparently the plant itself tells some people everything they need to know about your morals, your intelligence, your work ethic and your ability to parent.

Why?

And yes, before someone says it…
I know it’s illegal unless prescribed.
That’s a fact.

But since when did legality become everyone’s moral compass?

It’s technically illegal to be drunk in a pub.

It’s illegal to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances.

It’s illegal to wear armour in Parliament.

There are loads of weird, outdated laws that nobody uses as the basis for deciding whether someone’s a good person.

Yet cannabis seems to be the one subject where “it’s illegal” is treated as though that ends the discussion.

It doesn’t.
It tells me what the law says.

It doesn’t tell me why you think it’s wrong.
I’m not expecting everyone to agree with me.

I’m not even expecting everyone to like cannabis.

What I am interested in is hearing from people who’ve actually thought about why they believe what they believe.

If your entire contribution is “it’s illegal”, “drugs are bad” or “it ruins lives”, you’ve probably missed the point of the thread.

I’m asking why you think that.

And if your position is simply “I don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t swear, don’t break the rules, therefore everyone else should live by my standards”… then honestly, please scroll on, I’m not having that debate.

Abstinence doesn’t automatically make someone morally superior. It just means you’ve made different choices.

I’m interested in hearing from people who can separate behaviour from stereotypes, evidence from stigma and legality from morality.

And one last thing…

I genuinely worry about the people who could benefit from medical cannabis but are too scared to even ask about it because of the stereotypes attached to it.

I know people in exactly that position.
They’re frightened of being judged and labelled a druggie.

Whether cannabis is right for someone should be a conversation between them and their clinician, based on evidence, not fear of social stigma

Oh yes! Speaking of psychosis! I could introduce you to my next door neighbour. 24. Her whole life ahead of her. Paranoid as fuck and has periods of psychosis. She smokes all day every day.

Cannabis will only trigger psychosis if the person already has that going on. There used to be super-strains that people grew like skunk that were ridiculously strong and could trigger psychosis in people who already had mental health problems.
The majority of cannabis is NOT skunk and won't trigger psychosis.

Hmm. In the UK at least it’s all skunk. You can tell by the smell. None of this mellow sativa - maybe I mean indica? Anyway, the mellow one. strain over here as far as I can tell.

I don’t think it’s possible to get an objective discussion, unfortunately.

Temperamentally, I am inclined to think that it’s perfectly ok for adults using in the same way as alcohol. I have pain from time to time and though I’ve no wish to smoke, I would be tempted to use it in food, say brownies, as a way to cope and relax. CBD oil does absolutely nothing for me. Nothing at all.

Unfortunately, in my work I have seen so many times where teenagers and younger adults have had their lives absolutely destroyed from cannabis use from a young age. It destroys motivation and judgement and I have too many examples. I can think of promising young people who had potential careers vanish because of cannabis use. It’s heartbreaking to see. I’m thinking of a young man who was a gifted footballer, in particular. He might never have made professional grade but it could’ve given him a career in sports. He just dropped down and down and was unemployed and unemployable.So many other young people where i have seen apprenticeships vanish and they just couldn’t be bothered. It changed them.

When parents use it, it takes away motivation and their ability to focus on their children’s needs. They think it doesn’t matter if they use cannabis after their young children are in bed. But whilst they’re out of it and slow, they’re not alert to their children’s emotional and physical needs. I think it has to be acknowledged that a lot of cannabis use in disadvantage families is self medication as a way of making life bearable. I suspect most people on here won’t have direct experience of being involved with families like this.

I grew up in the 80s/early 90s. We used to smoke weed. It was resin - a bit of black leb, that kind of thing. I know the difference. Most people now smoke skunk. It’s vile, promotes psychosis and irritates your neighbours. It’s not harmless.

It’s interesting reading this thread, OP. Because when people raise legitimate concerns you seem to dismiss them as “see, that’s what I’m talking about, you’re soooo narrow minded”. You don’t seem to see that your attitude is equally narrow minded.

Personally, I’m pro prescription use. My experience (particularly two good friends at uni who were badly affected) makes me a bit wary legalisation. It may be my social circle, but I’m not aware of any habitual users who I think could be classed as responsible users, whereas the vast majority if alcohol users are responsible ones. But, no doubt, my personal experience just shows how irrational and biased I am and thus concerns can be dismissed.

Those are some bold statements. It's impossible to know what came first when psychosis is often the presenting system after cannabis use. About a third of people presenting with cannabis use psychosis go on to have schizophrenia so the drug came first there.

Also skunk accounts for over 90% of police seizures. It's getting stronger, not weaker.

Because it is absolutely underestimated in terms of the damage it can do and it's addictive quality.

I've known a lot of people who smoke it, and I've seen it fuck them up. Why promote on more thing that's going to hurt people?

I'm fed up of smelling it fucking everywhere. I don't want to walk through people's cigarette or vape smoke, and I absolutely don't want to walk through clouds of weed smoke.

I agree OP. Mumsnet is pretty weird about weed & it's wild the level of misunderstanding about medical cannabis in particular (yes it contains THC, no it's not necessarily weak and in fact can be much stronger than street weed, yes you can get 'skunk', no you're absolutely not supposed to smoke it but of course some people might).

Personally I think it should be legalised. I fail to see why it should be any business of the government whether or not and adult chooses to vaporise a plant in the privacy of their own home, whether that's for medical reasons or simply because they'd quite like to get a little high. Ironically while it wouldn't remove the smell, people vaporising properly grown strains rather than rolling up whatever shite they can get their hands on with tobacco would almost certainly be an improvement!

Legalisation would also help as a harm reduction method. Better quality control. You know that any treatments or pesticides used will be legal. People know what they are buying, including its strength and composition, which removes some obvious risks. Not to mention removing the risk of arrest for vaporising a plant - which seems somewhat disproportionate and a waste of everyone's time.

And of course those who don't like it, don't want to use it, don't want to be in a relationship with a cannabis user or who simply don't want to be around those who use at all remain absolutely free to make those choices.

I don’t agree that I’ve dismissed everyone who disagrees. The whole point of starting this thread was to have an open discussion, and I’ve genuinely taken on board a lot of the thoughtful points people have made, even when they’ve challenged my own views.

You’re right that, early on, I thanked one poster for their contribution because I felt it illustrated part of what I was trying to discuss around sweeping judgements and the marginalisation of cannabis users as a whole. That was about the point being made, not because they disagreed with me.

I’ve deliberately chosen not to engage with posters who seem more interested in debating me than the topic itself, or who have reduced the discussion to calling people “druggies” or similar. Ironically, that’s one of the very stereotypes I started this thread to explore.

I don’t consider your views irrational or biased either, so I’m not entirely sure why you’ve suggested I think that. From my perspective, you’ve shared your own experiences, just as many others have, and those experiences are valid whether they support my thinking or challenge it.

Thank you for taking the time to contribute. I do appreciate

”And of course those who don't like it, don't want to use it, don't want to be in a relationship with a cannabis user or who simply don't want to be around those who use at all remain absolutely free to make those choices.”

But this is it. We DO NOT get to make those choices because of the stench.

I don’t actually care what people choose to ingest. Your body; your choice. But when your choices affect those around you it becomes antisocial.

I'm an atheist, but I'm still sometimes awakened by church bells and were I in some other places, the call to prayer. If I live in a rural village I can't reasonably object to cockerels, early tractors or the smell of silage.

Equally in a city centre or heavily urbanised area expect pubs, late and early people noise, deliveries and yes, probably a bit of weed smell - albeit perhaps less intrusive than sitting next to a table in a beer garden where folks are constantly puffing on cotton candy nicotine vapes.

Living around other people requires some tolerance of habits and views (within limits of course). I think we're increasingly moving away from that, which I think is a terrible shame.

Are you sure your acquaintances critical thinking skills aren't equally poor everywhere, and this is just the area where you notice it most?

Oh give over.

Try living next door to multiple constant weed smokers. There’s a difference. Stop trying to normalise it.

For me, anything smoked is as bad as tobacco if not worse.

Making it airborne removes the choice of those around you over whether they wish to suffer it's effects. I cannot stand the smell and worried horribly over the effects of it when my daughter's were young and neighbours would openly smoke it in hot weather when windows were open.

Vile substance used selfishly. Anyone who smokes this seems to forget they are part of a community whose choice to avoid this substance is violated whenever you smoke it. Keep your paranoia inducing, cancer causing fumes to yourself.

And seriously, f*ck you for using it near my children.

Yeo. Addicts will try anything to argue for their addiction.

I find it's the other way. The members of my family that smoke the stuff loudly protest that it is harmless. Beneficial in fact. Absolutely won't hear anything otherwise.
In reality my DB is 41 and hasn't worked since he was in his teens. Sister never worked. They will never. My Dad is state of psychosis much of the time due to life long smoking (stated by mental health professionals). My DM is absolutely useless. Stunted at about age 16. And on and on. Everyone who doesn't use it is doing well.
When I hear people bleating on about how great it is I can't help but literally roll my eyes and nod, no point arguing with people that love it. It's like they can't see the forest for the trees. But it makes me angry when teens then hear that message and get on it because I know how damaging it is. I've literally distanced myself from them so my kids don't hear their delusional bullshit on the subject.

One of my exs was sectioned for psychosis due to constantly smoking cannabis. He still smokes it never worked in his life lives in a council flat and has no life no family. Its sad really but im very glad I got away from him.

I live in a block of nine social housing flats, where six of the tenants are heavy cannabis smokers. While the Housing Association does its best to address the issue—especially in communal areas, outside the flats, and near the entrance where tenants frequently smoke—they seem powerless to stop it. As non-smokers, we must contend with a horrendous, permeating smell. Once the odor enters my flat, it is nearly impossible to get rid of. Consequently, I am constantly closing my lounge, kitchen, and bedroom windows, even in 30-degree heat.

My next-door neighbor, a woman in her late 40s, goes outside every morning at 5:45 AM for her first smoke of the day, and continues this routine until night. Her teenage daughter has now become a regular weed smoker as well. Furthermore, these tenants frequently smoke right before driving their cars. The drug certainly does not mellow them; instead, it fuels loud music, shouting, screaming, and domestic disputes. Ironically, they view me as the unreasonable one for complaining, justifying their behavior by claiming cannabis is harmless and far better than being drunk on alcohol.

My son (adult) always says this. You’d never see 2 stoners fighting in the street.

And this is where I think my original point is being missed.

Several posters have shared examples of people they know who don’t work, have mental health problems or have made poor life choices, and then concluded that cannabis is the reason.

But did cannabis make them unemployed, irresponsible or miserable to be around? Or are they people with complex lives who also happen to use cannabis?

Correlation isn’t the same as causation, and that’s exactly the sort of nuance I wanted to discuss.

Equally, some of the responses to me have actually demonstrated my point far better than I ever could. I’ve been called an addict, had “she doth protest too much” thrown at me, and one poster described people who talk about the benefits of cannabis as talking “delusional bullshit”. Another said “addicts will try anything to argue for their addiction.”

That’s fascinating to me, because I’m not defending drug abuse or drug culture. I’m asking why every cannabis user gets put into the same box.

Nobody looks across a beer garden and assumes everyone with a pint is an abusive alcoholic that’s going to go home and beat up their family. Nobody assumes everyone prescribed diazepam is addicted. Yet mention cannabis and suddenly some people jump straight to “pothead”, “druggie”, “addict”, “waster”, “loser”, or assume you’re defending organised crime and irresponsible parenting.

That’s the bit I wanted to discuss. Not whether cannabis is risk-free, it clearly isn’t, but why, for some people, the word cannabis itself seems to replace the ability to judge individuals on their behaviour and choices.

Certainly not all the cannabis in the UK is skunk. There are thousands of strains available that are a mix of sativa and indica or just largely one or the other which both have different effects.
Sativa strains are more buzzy 'up' feelings and indica is calming, sleep, chilled out. I made a sleep tincture out of some indica a few weeks back.

Skunk was more prevalent in the early 2000s when more home grows started happening because it was strong so there was more 'bang for your buck'. But because it's so strong it could trigger psychosis in people who were already susceptible to psychosis.

Cannabis won't give you psychosis if that's not the case.

When I worked in a town centre I would see vomit and blood all over the pavements from weekend boozy fighting.

You'd never get that violence from people who were stoned.

You can get good air purifiers on Amazon that help with the smell. Might be worth considering.

The only addictive component of weed is the tobacco that's used to smoke it.

I don't like smoke so would never smoke it. I make tinctures, oils etc