AIBU to want to step back from our long standing friendship group?

[sycaless]

Not sure if I'm being unreasonable here… interested to hear if anyone else has found themselves in a similar position.

DH and I have been part of the same fairly large friendship group for about 20 years. They're all perfectly nice people, but if I'm honest I've never really felt I've properly clicked with most of them. Over the last few years I've started wondering whether I actually want to keep investing so much time and energy into these friendships, but DH can't really understand why I'd want to step back.

We're all around 40 now and pretty much every social occasion revolves around drinking (or other things). Even "just a quick one at the pub" usually ends up with everyone getting fairly wrecked. Years ago it all felt a bit more spontaneous and people seemed more interesting somehow. Now I sometimes feel like we're all acting out the same script. The same jokes, the same stories, the same personalities. It's almost like being in a sitcom that's gone on a few series too long.

There have always been little cliques within the group as well, and they seem to shuffle around depending on who's fallen out with whom, who's moved away, who's back in town etc. It all feels a bit... performative? Superficial? I can't quite put my finger on it. There’s a level of competition around creating and maintaining these cliques and, for some, about leading them.

I'm starting to wonder if I've simply outgrown it, or whether this is just what happens with friendship groups that have been together for decades.

Has anyone else ever reached this stage? Did you quietly distance yourself and make new friends or did you stick with it because old friends are worth hanging onto even if you've changed? And if your partner still loves the group, how did you navigate that?

Yes op perhaps you outgrew them. I try and do new hobbies now to get out. I find I dont really want mad nights out now Im 50s

The budget issue annoys me too sometimes. Budgets seem to disappear when it’s being spent on booze or drugs. Can’t spend much on food but can spend 100 quid on cocktails?!

Ahhh @sycaless I was you three years ago. I was in a small clique and red flags kept popping up. It was a female- group and I slowly, and painfully, came to the realisation that:

We had very little in common any more - just shared history (21 years with one. Over a decade with others).
Spent 90% of our time drinking. This became an issue when I embarked on a sober journey.
I was getting bored on our nights out. Like groundhog day.
Essentially stopped respecting one or two members over fundamental/core values. I have a need to respect my friends.
The group was exclusive. That's not my vibe. Most evenings were spent judging others, and I'd leave feeling a bit grubby tbh
Too. Much. Drama.

My friends are my everything as I have verrry little family. I invest a lot in my friendships, and as I hit my 40s I evaluated things. I'm lucky that I have a lot of amazing friends, whom I respect, admire and cherish. They were there to pick up the pieces when the shit hit the fan and I was essentially (gratefully) kicked out of the group. It was never going to end quietly or peacefully, sadly.

Three years on I have no regrets. Time is precious - spend it with friends who are radiators not drains. Who make your cheeks ache from smiling. Who teach you things, will listen to you and respect you. Who leave you feeling fulfilled as a PP said.

Also agree that 1:1 or 1:2 time with friends is so much more satisfying as we get older.

Yes I think this is very wise. I feel with most people they have a small number of 'core' friendships that stick with you for life or the very long term, then a larger number of 'seasonal' or situational friendships that come and go, and perhaps an even wider circle of acquaintances and people you spend time with merely by proximity such as work colleagues, school run, hobby buddies etc. I think the big thing we can sometimes all do which causes unnecessary angst is mistaking people from one category for another, for instance treating the natural drifting apart over time of a seasonal friend as something as dramatic or traumatic as falling out with a 'core' friend, or trying desperately to cling onto these friendships that have long since ceased to be enjoyable or fulfilling.

Sounds terribly transactional putting people into tiers like that, but it's not meant to be, the seasonal friends can be just as meaningful and important in your life as the core ones, and I've had some of the best times of my life with people I ended up knowing for only a short period, those friends are just there for a time and sometimes a place only. That doesn't devalue them, but if you feel the friendship has run it's course then it's perfectly fine to gradually phase out, there doesn't have to be a big trigger event or a falling out, you can just become quietly more and more busy and attend fewer gatherings or stay shorter when you do and sort of fade out. If it's comforting at all I really don't know many people who have a 'core' friendship group they really are close to bigger than they can count on one hand, and the ones I know that do claim to genuinely have 20 friends they are equally close to and lifelong BFFs with, tend to be more dysfunctional as a group and caught up in all sorts of unnecessary drama - I just don't think you can be that into the minutae of that many people's lives and have that many interrelationships over a period of time without fallings out and misunderstandings and so on. So I think you sound very sensible and normal to be 'over' this group OP...

If you’re serious about quitting drugs, then yes, it would probably be wise for you to stop hanging round with your smackhead friends.

🤣

@NoctuaAthene wise words. I've known about having friends for a "reason, a season...or a lifetime" for a while and love your words around this theme. The length of time we're friends with others often doesn't translate to how deep or meaningful that friendship was.

@sycaless it's easy for people on here to say you can quietly extract yourself from the group little by little...but I know the reality is different when it has been so intense and enmeshed for so long. There probably will be gossip in the group, and people may think you're judging them (which you rightly should be if they're parents taking recreational drugs imo !). You'll need to dig deep and stick to your values and beliefs.

Have you read Elizabeth Day's Friendaholic book? Some good themes and experiences explored there. Good luck!

OMG this has happened to my group of friends to the extent that I wonder if you are the same person! Except I'm pretty sure she'd never post on mumsnet and a few things different from your post.

From the perspective of someone who has stuck within the boring / outgrown group of friends... we're fine without the friend that left. But sadly her husband doesn't get to stay, we don't invite him to stuff any more as it's just too weird him showing up and saying 'oh she felt ill' or 'she has work' when it's obvious she just doesn't like us any more.

But in general, it's fine. Yes we are boring and old. We tell the same stories. That's what middle age with old friends look like I reckon... we all lost a lot of braincells since we had kids and our lives are not as big and exciting as they were but that's life really. But if you want to go and have more exciting friendships that's awesome, you should. For my part I value the familiarity of old friendships I can be unapologetically myself. And then I also have other groups of friends I don't drink with or I have more intellectual conversations with... that's fine too. But that's me, I have a balance. The mate who ditched us wanted all that and no old friends which is whatever honestly.

EDIT Just RTFT and saw reference to drug taking so we're definitely not the mates in question as none of us do any drugs we're all too boring.

What are the differences?
Maybe I am her now I’m very curious!
(just saw your edit!)

Interested in why you say “the husband didn’t get to stay” too. How do you know he wanted to stay but didn’t get to?

How I knew he wanted to stay? Because the sequence was they stopped reaching out to the group to arrange stuff or invite the group to stuff. But we kept inviting them (whatsapps etc) at first we invited them to things and he would come without her. Then over time we've drifted to new whatsapps etc which don't include them as it's obvious she doesn't want to come and it's weird. And now from time to time he'll reach out to hang out if she's away or something. My assumption is he would have wanted to continue to be included but it's just too weird (for the rest of us).

The differences are references to taking drugs. My group do drink too much wine like the boring middle-aged people we are, but none of us take drugs at all so you can't be her.

In any event the point is, in answer to your original post, you do need to be clear that in 99% certainty if you step back you're making that decision on your husband's behalf also, and if you're good with that.

If he'd be too sad, maybe just try making other friends and half checking out.

That’s interesting, that you say him coming without her was a problem and her turning up but it being obvious she didn’t want to come was also a problem. It does sound to me like you, as a group, prevented him for spending time with you and essentially punished him for her lack of enthusiasm/buy-in.

Was moving on to different WhatsApp groups they weren’t in a conscious move?

This touches on a core issue I have with friend groups like this which is what was being asked was for her to act as if she loved hanging out in order for both of them to be accepted. It’s the performative stuff I mentioned in my OP. Hope you don’t take what I’ve said personally, it’s just an observation and I don’t know the ins and outs of your story/group. It sounds like it works for you and that you are happy which is all that matters.

Ah no either you misread or I mistyped. She checked out and stopped coming to stuff, one day we just never saw her again (after decades of close friendship, bridesmaids at each others' weddings etc). And it was weird him showing up without her consistently and making excuses for why she wasn't there.

Maybe if she'd have just done the hard thing and said our friendship wasn't working for her for whatever reason it might have been easier but honestly it was just really awkward. I'd like to live in a perfectly fair world but we don't, and we're all couples in our group, and having the one bloke hanging round without his wife, especially when the unsaid thing was that she suddenly hated us all for some reason we weren't allowed to ask and he wasn't allowed to say just killed the vibe so we stopped inviting him. Also of course very one sided, only so many times you can be feeding and watering an extra person at the table to never returns the invite because his wife doesn't want any of you near the house any more.

You just need to understand that you can rage against it, and find it annoying and cliquey and whatever, but it's just reality. You check out, you'll be making the decision for the both of you.

You've gone from “she didn’t like us anymore” to “she hates us”… sounds like you started hating her because she messed up this couples dynamic?

If she never spoke to you about it then all of this is just in your collective heads (that she hated you).

I personally don’t get why you only want to hang out in couples, either way a bit unkind to ice him out when he continued to show interest and reaching out. And odd that you would be bothered about feeding and watering a friend because you never have the “favour” returned? A purely transactional arrangement by the sounds of it.

But I take your point about how stepping back would be a decision made for both of us - thanks

EDIT: Want to add a thanks for the insight about the couples dynamic too. I wonder if part of why I’ve found hanging out with our group of friends more difficult in the past few years is that there is a set couples dynamic nowadays and a bit of a women vs men thing going on for activities and that just isn’t my cup of tea.

Hates / doesn’t like - brevity for typing, not too deep. I don’t know as haven’t seen her, but let’s agree somewhere on the dislike spectrum 🤣. I definitely don’t hate her. I think it was a bit mutual, all the others in the group were probably closer in a way that’s hard to define than any of us were with her.

As for inviting the husband… i mean we tend to do a lot of stuff at our respective houses because we all have kids. If I’d put an AIBU to say someone always shows up and eats food and drinks drinks but never returns the invite or makes any other effort to arrange things I think the consensus would be I was not being unreasonable to not invite that person any more. There’s a difference between being transactional (given i’m talking about mates i’ve had for decades, obviously not the case) and something just becoming massively one sided?

I think you've outgrown them, which is completely understandable. Large friendship groups getting drunk is definitely more for the 20s. Not many people around the age of 40+ would have the patience for cliques/fall outs/performative behaviour. They're probably all reasonable people in day to day life but reverting back to their younger self's when back in the group setting.

You have evolved, they haven't. My DH had a group like that who were stuck in the 80's, every time we went out it was talking about that time and those people, who I never knew. DH was great and realised how boring it was. We don't see them any more!

Most people wouldn't exclude a friend because their wife wasn't coming to events. Your post come across with glee at the fact he was excluded. Not a nice vibe at all.

It sounds awful op.
Are you worried about who's talking about you behind your back ?
So you're all in your 40's,..? and ' the Prosecco crew...the Glasto crew....really ?
I

Same as every adult group of friends I think.

Thing is, this thread isn’t about you. Great that you still want to stick with the same group of friends but the OP doesn’t have to feel the same.

I’d suggest trying to step back a bit rather than ditching them completely - go sometimes, go for less time. You sound bored of them more than anything so if you spent more time with other groups and saw less of them maybe you’d appreciate their good points (assuming they have some!) more. Hopefully wouldn’t disrupt your DH’s friendships if you’re just a bit busier with work and they gradually get used to you dipping in and out of social stuff.

In the spirit of what you are asking yes, but I’m not actually worried since I know (safe to assume) that they do say all manner of things, including that they think DH and I spend too much time together.

That’s something that’s been said for years, even before we got married/DCs nearly a decade ago (they still comment on it).

A few of them even tried to intervene to say “you shouldn’t spend so much time together it’s not healthy for a relationship”.

You’re not being unreasonable, some people are only ment to be in our lives temporarily (and that’s ok…) people change and also we only have one life to & a short space of time to worry about things like that…I ended a 20 something ‘friendship’ due to her behaviour at my wedding…there were red flags before and I choose to ignore them… I should’ve ended my friendship many years ago but didn’t! Life’s too short…just end the friendship & tbh they all sound boring!