Are these people really British?

[glitterpaperchain]

In 1688, foreign strangers were arriving on British shores daily. The locals complained of despoilment of their environment. Londoners complained that French was everywhere, and not a word of English could be heard spoken! The French immigrants were denigrated either for being too poor, thus a drain on rate-paying parishioners, or too prosperous, at the expense of local merchants and business owners.

(Taken from Thou Savage Woman by Blessin Adams, great book!)

That sounds exactly like what I hear the media saying about immigrants now! So when the far right are making sure that Britain is for the British, shall they make sure we all trace our lineage back to the 1600s, and make sure no descendents of those awful French immigrants count as British?

I think your premise is a bit silly OP, tbh. But yes, of course it's true that immigration is a fact of life.

Sounds perfectly sensible compared to what some Restore politicians say, I think!

It's always been the case. Wait till they hear about what happened in 1066. And will they be tossing out King Charles (and French / German / Belgian Nige, for that matter).

So your argument is that people were unreasonable in 1688, and are unreasonable now?
The information could be received as, ‘Twas ever thus, and not in fact a far right resurgence after all.’.

Maybe Reform voters should all be forced by law to send in a DNA sample to Ancestry.com?

The British are one of the most mixed nationalities on earth.

I think I've got some African and Viking and Roman in me.

Yeah it’s always been the way. People a few hundred years ago were really not much different from us except they had less technology. They still believed that the old ways were better, and constantly complained about things like immigration, youth culture, and people being work-shy.

Yes doesn't Rupert Lowe like to talk about Brits as Anglo Saxons? So only going back to the 1600s is pretty tame really!

We all have "some African" in us. It's where we evolved.

Withpout migration, the human race would have died out millenia ago. Its been hapoening since various tribes claimed different bits of land.

I discovered the existence of various societies the other week, dedicated to the firstborn sons of each generation who are descendants of officers who served in the Revolutionary war, or people who are direct descendants of those who were on the Mayflower and so on, many of these societies. And these very same people come to Scotland (or wherever) and proclaim that they are Scottish. Some people are divisive, desperate to have a club that they belong to that you can’t and never will because {reasons}.

There is no one who is truly any random nationality, maybe for the last four or five generations, but look further than that and people have always moved around.

Migration is a fact of life but stuff is a bit different now, we have a welfare system and we don’t execute people anymore so when people commit crimes we have to keep looking after them. I’m pro reasonable migration which I think most people are. But I don’t think you can compare the two times really.

Yes I think it's really interesting how some Americans will claim to be Scottish/Irish because of an ancestor from the 1700s. My husband's family is Irish living in a touristy part of Ireland and they find it quite cringe when an American visits and claims they're Irish as well!

The invasion of 1688?

I'm not sure it is the best idea to compare modern migration to historical migrations linked to invasions..

Because that is the line that the right has been saying (and ridiculed correctly for doing so) for years "we are being invaded.."

Did you know, whiteness evolved because when we migrated to Europe and developed agriculture, we had such a poor diet that we involved lighter skin in order to absorb more vitamin D from the sun!

(I read this in Built on Bones by Brenna Hassett, I believe)

I believe that a Dutchman came over in 1688 and claimed he was entitled to be here due to his wife being a Brit.........

That's kind of my point. That isn't it ridiculous that the right sound like this. I was reading this book and read some of these parts aloud to my husband and said, sounds familiar doesn't it!

He was invited.

I’d love a German passport, my great grandfather was German coming here is 1908 and anglicised his name at the outbreak of the First World War, alas that’s not a strong enough connection

Pretty sure that OP is referring to the Huguenot diaspora (ie refugees) rather than the Dutch Invasion.

I am 👍

Not sure of your point.

there have been regular riots in London since at least the early Middle Ages against foreigners and immigrants (usually the French but sometimes the Dutch or the Spanish).

Yup, you're so right OP. Scale is irrelevant and it's bizarre that anyone would fixate on this. Reformbots with their stupid "hang on, the population has radically changed in the space of just one generation, this is historically extremely unusual in non-wartime/invasion cases" will surely be silenced when they hear about the Huguenots...

Have always loved Stewart Lee's monologue from 2013 having a go st UKIP's constant immigrant bashing back then.

"Paul Nuttals of the UKIPs" 😀

We are a funny little island ...