To feel annoyed I have to pay?

[Babablacksheep12]

Cleaner…

We have a cleaner who does every 2 weeks. She’s lovely and does the house well.

I have been in hospital for a few weeks following an operation that was planned.

I messaged her to cancel a clean whilst I was in hospital, ages ago - way more than the required notice time. I cancelled it as she cleaned the day I went in and then my house has been empty with me being in hospital so it’s perfect and not been touched and no one’s been in it so there would have been nothing to clean since she was last in.

In my contract I am allowed to cancel 2 cleans a year and she allowed 2, without payment which is very fair.

I got back from hospital today and noticed from my ring door bell that she’d been and cleaned despite me cancelling it , as per the contract and her acknowledging the cancellation.

I emailed her to ask if she had been , thinking she’d say no she was just dropping something off type thing and she just said yes, whoops she’d got confused. So now I need to pay. I’m slightly upset. I’m very short this month as I’ve had to have unpaid time off work to recover from my op so I don’t have the spare money and I feel like I’m literally throwing away money I don’t have when the house didn’t need cleaning.

There was also no apology just an oops type thing.

I value her so much so I know I will pay but I feel slightly miffed about the lack of accountability and that it’s on me to just pay.
I mean I know id pay as I respect her time and work but If it was me I would have said … I’m so sorry it’s my mistake please pay half etc and I would try and find the money to pay it all. But it was the lack of apology and just dizziness of whoops

That’s insane! £35 an hour!! Also if it is a professional relationship you should not be paying if you cancelled. I would tell her that in hindsight, as per the terms and conditions, you won’t be paying for the clean. I’m sure you can find a less extortionate cleaner if she walks away.

Personally I don't think £35 per hour is a lot for a self employed cleaner to charge, it's at the more expensive end yes, but still within the range of normal cleaning rates, if she's professional, good and reliable (and she's clearly set up properly as a business with her having t&cs which shows intention to operate professionally), but I do think it's cheeky of her to charge for a mistake she made and you shouldn't have to pay for that, the fact that she's trying to charge for it, I do find unprofessional of her.

Come on! It’s ridiculous!

It's not. IF (and it's a big IF) she's managing 20 chargeable hours per week, that's turnover of £700 for say 44 weeks of the year (she doesn't get paid for holidays nor sick days), so total turnover £30,800. LESS overheads which could easily be a few thousand for insurance, accountancy, bank charges, subscriptions, mobile phone, travelling costs, materials/equipment. So, maybe £25k p.a. Profit.

Someone working full time on NMW earns £25k p.a.

Chargeable hours of 20 per week can easily mean full time "working" due to non chargeable travelling, admin time, time spent buying supplies, etc.

So, actually pretty comparable to a minimum wage employed worker.

I’m on £34 an hour self employed in a different industry. But it’s only £34 if I don’t have any cancellations or gaps. I get 0 if that’s the case. I have to buy supplies. I have to do admin/CPD regularly. The only thing I don’t have to do is travel during the day. If this cleaner is spending 3-4 hours a day (to add the hours up to 7-8 hours a day full time) travelling she isn’t planning her day well. For example the OP normally has her 4 hours a day. So that’s all the work she’ll do that day? In which case that’s part time work. Because it’s home to OPs house then back home. The only travelling time there is commuting which is normal. Maybe another day she’ll have 2 clients for 2 hours each. Then what she’s spent 3-4 hours driving between them?? That’s bad management of time. Who would book a client in London for 2 hours then their next one in like Birmingham? I don’t know any cleaner that would take clients on for less than an hour a session. So even allowing 4 clients a day at an hour each she’s still driving almost 1 hour in between them. I can’t see that happening a lot.

Not sure how this is relevant. This is your terms of employment with your cleaner. The OP has different.

I think the fact she said the house wasn’t too bad would annoy me as it’s how she left it in her last clean so that’s on her. Also does the bell show what time she left? 3 hours cleaning a clean house sounds like a cushy number to me 105 quid for what exactly.

Yes, you are the fourth person to point this out. I apologise for offering another perspective - it was a comment, not an instruction, after all, but I withdraw it unreservedly.

You live alone yet have a cleaner?Understandable if you're disabled but if not, that's a luxury in itself. I'd definately pay at least half.

This. She’s the one that has soured the relationship not you. She’s taking the piss.

Talk about judgemental! It's entirely up to the OP how she spends her money. She works but likes her home to be perfectly clean. You've also no idea if the OP has a disability, or whether she has work and family priorities that make it difficult to clean her home. What do you spend your money on?

I can't believe you paid for her to sit and drink coffee and then run the hoover around!

Why?! I'd not have said anything and then contested the invoice "thanks for your invoice, however as you can see I cancelled this session."

There is no way she didn't notice it was cleaner than usual, she's taking the piss piss out of you. You've been in hospital and are struggling to afford the service and you honestly believe that at no point did she twig it was cleaner than normal and think back to your conversation about your cancellation? You know, one of those very rare cancellations? Her diary mismanagement is her problem. It's a costly lesson for her.

"The house wasn’t too bad!" No shit, Sherlock, it's as clean as you left it!

She’s cheeky as would have reliesed
House hasn’t been touched /stuffy and clean if no one there for 2w

tho wouldn't have hurt for you to say last time you saw /had her - see you in a month rem I’ve cancelled our next clean as I’m in hospital

Hmmm. "Oops, I got confused", but then I walked in the front door and it was blindingly obvious no cleaning was needed. So I did three hours anyway. Riiight.

I don't think I'd want to continue with her if that happened to me. It all seems a bit disingenuous:
The clean was cancelled, as per the contract, with appropriate notice which she confirmed; she got dates confused and turned up anyway.
The house was already clean, cleaned by her; she says it wasn't too bad and only took 3 hours.
She let herself into your home without your permission.

For me, no matter how good she might be, the trust would be gone. There are plenty of good cleaners out there, especially considering the amount you're paying her, sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs, this one is a toad.

Im in London and don’t pay anything near that. I understand not wanting to lose a good cleaner they are hard to come by but if she was prepared to
let you pay for 4 hrs if you hadn’t raised the ring doorbell with her ,
hasn’t apologised , and
actually thinks her own cleaning wasn’t great as it needed three hrs cleaning despite no one else being in
then I’m afraid she will take you for a ride again if you don’t put your foot down
you pay anything near premium rate and have a commercial professional arrangement so she should behave professionally

I would say - I’m really sorry that you made a mistake in your diary however as you know I was in hospital when you cleaned last week and no one has been in the house since, hence why I had cancelled in accordance with our contract. In recognition of our longstanding professional relationship I am prepared to pay you for half of the time you worked. I hope that you agree that is fair given on this occasion there was no co tract to clean the house, which hopefully didn’t. Wed cleaning after your full visit last week

Yes, and people are allowed a little luxury in life if they want, without judgement. You would pay at least half for a service you didn't ask for and didn't want?

Exactly. Maybe I’ll start a new career. I’ll find people who normally have gardeners or who take their cars to a car wash then I’ll turn up to their houses and do their garden or wash their car. Then they need to pay me because I’ve done the job even though they didn’t ask for it and it was only done the week before so didn’t need doing. But they need to pay me still!

But make sure you only do three quarters of the job at the very most. And only tell the customer this if they ask

She’s VERY cheeky to say “you only owe…” when a) you had cancelled and b) she acknowledged it was her fault!

i had a similar situation about 15 years ago and paid up… and I’m still a little bitter about it!

I think I’d find a new cleaner, whether you pay her or not the relationship is never going to be the same, she’s fucked it

I’m very short this month as I’ve had to have unpaid time off work to recover from my op so I don’t have the spare money and I feel like I’m literally throwing away money I don’t have when the house didn’t need cleaning.

and yet you have just posted you have all your children in private school, take multiple foreign holidays a year, regularly go to the theatre, dine out… @Babablacksheep12 ?

Absolutely! We don’t have an unlimited budget and I’ve had surgery and been off work … people do have to budget you know? We don’t have unlimited funds to live our life by!

We support and fund ourselves and our lifestyle- we don’t get child allowance or anything! I’m proud of what we have an achieve by working

@Tinahowls also you are aware I’ve posted this differently to not out me?! My name is not sally and her name is not Laura- a lot of the small details in my thread that have no relevance to the problem are changed - I wouldn’t come on here and out myself- that’s mental 😂 it’s the internet ! Core Problem is still the same. But I don’t share my details with strangers and I change things on purpose . I couldn’t risk people knowing who I am.

And regardless- people have every right to earn money , spend it how they see fit and budget correctly to live the life they want too - especially when they are funding it themselves. Like we do!

I was annoyed I cancelled my cleaner and she came anyway. The outcome was I have not paid her and have got a new cleaner as it was iffy as anything.

You seem to be joining the dots that I would throw money at something because we have money for other things? Both can be true- we can be well off and not want to pay for someone’s mistake

But to be posting about foreign holidays, private schooling, theatres trips, dinners out… and then here making out you are so short this month you can’t afford to pay a cleaner for two hours is… interesting