To feel I've been lied to about China

[Sulettamercury]

I'm well aware the country is far from perfect but no where is and I've just come back for the summer after spending 2 years there working as a teacher I'm going back in a few weeks.

What I can't get over is the fact all my friends seem to be indoctrinated into thinking China is this 1984 style hell hole where you can't criticise the government or do anything without being in constant fear.

I have to say living there really opened my eyes and I was shocked when in my first months of teaching one of the Chinese workers (now a good friend) started openly moaning about government policy and I'll admit I was nervous at the time but soon realised nothing would happen and that despite what I was told no one came after her and she didn't disappear and that every one was moaning about government policy if it didn't suit them with no consequences.

The infrastructure is also wonderful and far from the cheap rubbish you're told it is and housing isn't all on the verge of collapse or at least no worse than some of the rubbish I've seen here in the UK

Again it's definitely not perfect but AIBU to say I I feel like we're lied to in the west about how bad China really is and that some of the things we accuse them of we either do ourselves or we blow out of proportion?

I also get the distinct feeling we have the wrong view of their governmental system as from reading a bit of their history (I did this here before going btw) their system seems more like it's older imperial predecessors with the party leader being akin to an Emperor rather than the communist state we usually think it is.

That not an endorsement of that system so please don't think it is it's just an observation I made.

Apologies for the duplication of my post upthread. I don't know how that happened.

Thanks that was informative and in good faith so I appreciate the input

I have never heard the like from a Western person who lived in China. It’s impossible that this is real. Even people who like lots about China - and I do - get culture shock over the absolute lack of freedom of expression.

I’ve visited China many times. In terms of infrastructure there is huge disparity across the country. If you are living in Shanghai I can see why you might think it’s incredible but, again, I’ve never met someone who lives in China and believed Shanghai was in any way representative of the whole country. Two years in you’d know that for sure.

Try harder next time!

Not sure where you're going with this

Having worked with Chinese students, yes a lot of it really is that bad and were you expecting your colleague to be seized in imprisoned immediately?

I don't know what you mean about the infrastructure because I never heard that - by default the Chinese students tend to be quite well off but usually they think their infrastructure is better than ours.

I assure it is real and if you read the thread I've clarified that I'm questioning myself which is why I started the topic.

Of course one place isn't representative of an entire country just like London is nothing like York

To add, there is indeed plenty of excellent infrastructure spread across the country. Trains in particular are great. But clearly a lot of corners are cut, a lot of parts of the country are neglected or actively oppressed, a lot of rural people are living 19th-Century lives while Shanghai’s elites are all the way ahead of us in the 22nd Century.

Well done on toeing the Party line. 🙄 You might want to talk to some Uyghurs, to name just one persecuted group. I recommend reading the extremely powerful memoir by the Uyghur poet and filmmaker Tahir Hamut Izgil. It might be eye-opening for you.

What I can't get over is the fact all my friends seem to be indoctrinated into thinking China is this 1984 style hell hole where you can't criticise the government or do anything without being in constant fear.

In Xinjiang that is absolutely the case. If you're a Uighur, simply existing is enough to be in constant fear. Look at a han soldier or official funny (or have one claim that you did) and you'll be detained in the camps.

I can only assume that you're teaching in a large city in the east of the country. Because you sound stunningly naive about the country. Yes Shanghai and Beijing etc are modern metropolises where life can almost seem Western. But the bulk of the country (and particularly any non-Han regions) are very very different.

I love China I love a lots of Asia. I love infrastructure, ease of tech use and it’s seamlessness.

lots of peoples understating of foreign country outside of their continent it’s stuck on the last time they saw them in the news. No people or country is perfect.

but China isn’t some specialist outlier boogieman that’s worse than the rest. No country has a moral high ground. It’s extremely naive to pretend they do.

America is having an outbreak and can’t eat fresh veg because their farms are covered in human waste due to torturous conditions for their farms workers.
The UAE is funding mass civilian murder in Sudan. The USA is forcing societal collapse in Cuba. France in decimating Central African economies by forcing the use of CAF and storage of a percentage of those countries funds in French banks.

countries do bad shit daily.

I'm trying to check myself so I don't fall into the trap of blind positivity through having a discussion. I laid out my experience for you all to question and critique granted my OP likely gives the wrong impression but I would consider it a good thing that I'm asking for my views to be challenged.

Do you have a link to where I can get it as I would be interested in reading that

but China isn’t some specialist outlier boogieman that’s worse than the rest.

It really is. Do you know of any other country that has detained 1.5 million people in concentration camps over the last nine years, simply for being the 'wrong' ethnicity, @beAsensible1 ?

I’m sorry this just does not ring true. After living in China for two years, you will have many friends there - probably both Western and Chinese if you’re in a major city, as you seem to be.

Surely you talk about China with them pretty much all the time? Why would you be coming on mumsnet to “check yourself?”

@beAsensible1 "America is having an outbreak and can’t eat fresh veg because their farms are covered in human waste due to torturous conditions for their farms workers"

where did you hear that? I thought they were looking for the source of the contaminated water. That's going to be a sewage issue.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights

I don't think anyone's mentioned yet the state executing people - they'd say 'criminals', whether they've actually done anything criminal is highly debatable - to meet the demand for donor organs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

Because I've returned for the summer to see family and I'm acutely aware that two years is not a long time and that while I'm there as folk have pointed out I'm only seeing a small slice.

MN is a large public forum and I can get a much larger set of responses that won't hold back for the sake of my feelings etc just like you haven't and if you don't believe me there's very little I can say or do and that's fine you're entitled to that opinion.

What is happening in Xinjiang, and has been happening for more than a decade:

https://www.waterstones.com/book/waiting-to-be-arrested-at-night/tahir-hamut-izgil/joshua-l-freeman/9781529922752

The book is called Waiting to Be Arrested at Night.

Thank you

Exactly this. Do you know how they treat Christians and practitioners of Falun Gong, for example? And if they decide that you’ve been a bit too vocal in your criticism of the State, they don’t just come after you. They come after your family members too.

A dangerous place to be a citizen.

Wait, you have family members in China?

Wouldn't you know more about it than we do?
And you were saying that you have returned - so you already lived there? What's going on?

No I have family in the UK I've come back to the UK for the summer sorry for the confusion

I couldn't agree more @Sulettamercury. I lived there for 3 years and now regard it as my 2nd home. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

The western propaganda we get about China is unrecognisable from the reality. China is 10 years ahead of the West in many ways. But also has rock solid family values and focus on education.

My betting is that the vast majority of people with firm anti China sentiment have never been there.