Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

Blimey, the bollox people make up about how our system "should" work in order to attack a party they don't like.

Governing parties elect new PMs from among their sitting MPs all the time. The last government made a particular habit of it. If you don't like it, campaign for a law saying that any time a PM resigns there must be a new general election (which would be completely ridiculous).

And IF Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election, he will be just as democratically elected as an MP as anyone elected in the last general election, so just as qualified to be PM.

The council banding system needs an overhaul. Houses with massive extensions etc have not been rebranded for years. It should be done automatically when the work has been completed. Would raise tons of money.

People won’t extend their homes if they know the council tax will go up.
Many can afford a small extension , but not to move to a bigger house. It might have the effect of some people downsizing , but who can afford the bigger houses they may want to move from? I bet the housing market will stagnant soon. Especially if council tax increases by a lot. Also councils waste so much money , wouidnt looking into their finances be a better idea instead of clobbering people with more taxes. With so few social housing around, buying is the only option for many and prices are high for so many people are already and many people in flats ( as my son is) also have to pay extra fees for the leaseholders as well as council tax.
That goes up every year.

The problem with the wealth tax and council tax rebranding is that everyone thinks it’s just the rich who will pay. Maybe at first that’s true but long term they will freeze/reduce bands until everyone is paying more

london and the south east will also be disproportionately impacted

the knock on effects need to be considered but the current government don’t seem to want to look at things like that if the NI change is anything to go by

What are the chances that Reform win? A lot of voters in that area are going to be onside with Reform and maybe they like having him as their Mayor but not their PM, will they sabotage him?

Yes, going through the accounts and stripping down the councils to basic services is the way to go, Reform/Tories would do this? Are Labour deliberately trying to crash house prices?

Reform councillors all believed there were big easy savings to be made in council spending.

And surprise, surprise they haven't found them.

So, are you saying people are either northern OR well educated?
Or is it that you can be either working class or well educated?
Are only northerners working class?

As a working class northern bird with 2 degrees, I wonder if I actually exist.
I don't like Andy Burnham either.

I think Andy burnham leans very much into the stereotype that northerners are working class. I know that’s why my (northern) dad doesn’t like him because he thinks he’s a phony!

Only one constituency voted in Starmer at the GE. The rest of the population (that voted Labour) elected a local MP on the basis of the party’s manifesto… hoping that the party would stick to what it had promised to do.

Nothing’s really changed there. IF Burnham gets in, he’ll be restricted by the GE manifesto commitments to the same degree as Starmer chose to be. Where he adds new policies, or ignores the manifesto (as Starmer has several times now), he’ll have to convince all the sitting Labour MPs to get behind him. If they think that’s a non-starter then they’ll rebel, as they’ve done to Starmer, and force him to take a different approach.

I don’t actually mind Starmer. We’ve had big personalities recently (Boris) enough to put me off overly charismatic politicians. Someone a little more decisive than he is made out to be would be nice but, then again, I can remember Maggie so…

I think the North is more synonymous with the idea of WC than the South. We have a long history of a N/S divide, and a feeling that resources and politicians attentions are concentrated in the South where the wealth lies. WC people from all over the UK can often relate to the idea of being overlooked and ignored by the wealthy and privileged. So AB with his Northern accent and plain speech suggests someone who may not do this because he's 'one of us'.
His high levels of education offer reassurance to those prejudiced against WC left wing politicians as being loud mouth rabble rousers, who are all fight and limited competence. The Angela Raynor stereotype.
Obviously there are highly educated MC Northerners and WC southerners with limited education. But stereotypes feature heavily in politics. Every day we have Reform supporters making sweeping statements about what the WC want and think, framing all WC people as white, obsessed with immigration and turning to Reform. Which as a WC woman have nothing to do with me or my life.

there’s nothing technically “wrong”
about it, we vote for a party for 5 years not a leader
Both Liz Truss and Rishi became PM without a GM so it’s hardly unusual So did Boris but at least he did then call a new GE. It’s not impossible that AB might do this if elected leader.

However it doesn’t sit entirely right with me because
a. People voting in makerfield should be right to ask how well is he going to represent them if he’s sat in 10 Downing Street. Up to them in the end though.

b. I’m in GM and would far rather have him as mayor than Reform. I’m a bit annoyed he may not see out the rest of his term as I voted for him but I just about see the greater good argument here

Good. You say this as if it’s a bad thing. All these extensions just create more unaffordable houses. Part of the reason bungalows are so rare now is because so many have had an extra storey added.

I'd prefer that my MP held the most powerful position in the country than was languishing on the back benches. Having a direct route to the the ear of the PM is a considerable advantage. Worth more than turning up to open the local fete I'd have thought.

My MP for years was John Major. During that time he was foreign secretary, chancellor and PM. He was also a fantastic constituency MP because he employed a highly competent team. It can be done.

Was John major the last working class PM?

feels like he was the last PM who didn’t see it as some sort of game tbh

I don’t know. I don’t share the MN obsession with the class system. He wasn’t the last PM with integrity, Major and Gordon Brown are cut from the same cloth for me. Both honest, decent men who are led by their values.

I must admit I don’t really understand the class system so this obsession with showing yourself to be working class seems very clumsy

yes agree GB was an old style politician

"Charismatic" covers people like Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood or the lead singer of INXS, it doesn"t apply to people who comb their hair with a balloon.

Saw some documentary about banking or financial careers, person said that back in the day when banking was basically counting money and giving out loans if you went to the right school and your dad and grandfather had worked at a big bank in London or wherever you were basically guaranteed a role at some level, even if you were pretty thick, it was just connections and networking, now as banks have moved heavily into trading and other financial shenanigans that were once the domain of shady offshore hedge funds they need people with real maths skills, a real feel for trading etc. so if that maths/trading genius happens to come from a housing estate in Newcastle he or she will be jumping over people from much more privileged backgrounds for top banking jobs, they said they almost felt sorry for the people from the more privileged families as they just couldn"t compete anymore on connections alone. I found that interesting, even more ironic though is that they are all going to replaced by AI so even raw talent can"t help you now!

https://institute.global/insights/politics-and-governance/the-labour-party-is-playing-with-fire-over-its-future-and-the-future-of-the-country

I think Tony Blair is right in most of what he says in this essay. Especially about the soft left and going further left. There is no mandate whatsoever for this and Labour will be deeply punished by the electorate. That much is a guarantee.

I recommend people read this essay as it informs a lot of what is going on and should also be read in conjunction with the IMF report.
If politicians actually bothered listening to economic, financial and legal realities and base policy on it, and lead strongly based on policy, England and Great Britain would soon recover.

Yes agree it’s a good essay. Rishi Sunak was on the radio this morning and gave the same view on leadership change It’s more fundamental than that

He advocated the current government ripping up its manifesto pledges on workers’ rights, the environmental and taxation - you know the things they got a mandate for. He’s turned into the epitome of a dishonest politician.

The head of GCHQ will be speaking from Bletchley Park as well, reiterating much of what Blair said about cyber security and AI and the tech revolution. We have to position ourselves in our niche, working public and privately together, including universities.

Keep digging your head in the sand @blossomtoes. Farage will take the best from Blair’s essay and run with it, whether you like it or not. And if he does that - the establishment will likely vote for him. That is the reality of the matter. Blair is actually trying to help the Labour Party and the country.

Their manifesto pledge on tax was awful and they should have had the courage to go against it tbh because the tinkering they are doing is terrible for the economy

we need to accept we are a country in decline and manage on that basis