Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

How do you think democracy can be bought? There are millions of voters with different ideas and opinions.

So @Araminta1003, Reform win Doncaster North, Basildon South, East Bolsover and West Dudley (obvs made up constituencies) with candidates that have come through Reform's selection process. Then all four resign, triggering by-elections and Reform candidates for by-election come through Reform's selection process but this time are all richer and all four win by-elections - how is this democracy being bought (granted, we as nation are paying for the by-elections but that's life living under democracy - you can't predict how many by-elections there may be in any parliament)

Well if you are a party with donations it helps doesn’t it? I think the spending limit was 180k per candidate per by-election?
Unnecessary posturing by-elections are as noted also a detrimental cost to the taxpayers , via council tax.
But if Labour are going to do this, they can’t then pull up the drawbridge for Reform? Who do seem to be looking around for legitimacy and big names and I bet that if they do actually get significant amount of seats then suddenly a whole lot of rich and influential people may join and may try and join in this sort of way. They won’t be able to break the rules of course, but money helps.
So my point is they are setting a precedent for by-election resignations on the grounds of making way for someone else in their own party.

On the donation note, Labour were meant to introduce a 100k donation limit from March 26 from foreign donors but all the shenanigans now means what exactly for this proposal?

By making amazing-sounding manifesto promises to people in return for their vote?

Reform are really good at this, because they can see most of the country is fed up with economy and the cost of living, so all they have to do is promise a few belters in their manifesto and watch the votes roll in.

I’m not a Reform voter, btw.

Yes that’s the idea!

After every GE the band of brigade join the winning party.

When they inevitably all social climb and back stab then we can actually vote.

They are nothing to do with economy and cost of living though, Farage opened and pushed the much needed debate in mainstream politics about immigration and the relationship with the EU, people are voting for Reform because these topics and people"s views on them were ignored in the mainstream for so long.

I actually think it does have something to do with the economy and cost of living.

One of the reasons why Farage’s messaging is getting through so effectively to people now, compared to ten years ago, is because people are absolutely fed up with the economy and the cost of living.

That’s because they think migrants are taking all their jobs and are getting privileges they don’t have. I think it’s also because they think EU membership contributed to this by encouraging other EU citizens to move to the UK and take jobs that a British person could have done.

I think it isn’t just poverty and being left behind.
Some Reform voters seem to think the system discriminates against them and their culture and identity and instead promotes others who used to be on the margins. Some Reform voters believe the system has deliberately marginalised them.

When we look at the educational outcomes of white working class boys - maybe they do have a point? Why are they so out of sync?

I’m 68 and have never missed voting in a general or local election since I was 18 and Ive never voted for the party leader. I’ve always read the party manifestos and read about or talked to my local candidates and have voted mostly for the party’s policies but also partly on the basis of my local candidate(s). It would never occur to me to consider that I was voting for Keir Starmer, Kemi Badenoch, Ed Davey etc unless I happened to live in their constituency. The leader of the Labour Party is elected by the party’s members, not the electorate.

Why is Josh Simon standing down though for Burnham ? What’s he’s getting in return ?
MPs on 90k a year don’t just give up a job after 20 months to give way form someone else..
Somethings not right here ..

Maybe they’ll do a job swap? Dunno.

But there’s no guarantee Burnham will keep the seat anyway.

He’s 32 and went to Oxbridge and Harvard and I’m sure is quite ambitious. He has 3 kids more pertinently who must be pretty young. Not sure I’d be best pleased if I were his wife!! He must be getting something in return.

And Reform have absolutely nothing to lose. They’ll potentially win a MPs seat and a Mayor’s job.
Labour have a lot to lose ..

Although they’re not making him give up the mayoralty until after the election? Can’t say I would be very happy to have a disengaged mayor for 6 weeks and then the election starts for a new one

He’ll probably get a job advising the new Mayor in some capacity or other.

We vote for a party not a person.

Its a good job too, we don't want british politics to become even more unstable than it currently is and personality politics feed into that.

We've had far too much americanisation of our society and this idea of voting for a single person is a further extension of American ideals. America is a morally bankrupt shitshow and we are in danger of going the same way.

We need stability, if labour choose Andy and you don't like the cut of his party's jib, don't vote Labour in the next general election. Simple.

We are soooo lucky to live in the democracy we do, despite the ups and downs. We've had too many Prime Ministers in quick succession in recent years, things need to settle. Not ill educated posts like the OPs trying to insinuate that we somehow don't live in a democracy. We very much do.

We've got enough on dealing with corrupt fascists like Farage convincing the poor, ill educated and hard of thinking that black and brown people are to blame for all their woes rather than it actually being rich, powerful, corrupt cunts like Farage himself and his shady backers.

Which is why a leadership contest in this particular context right now is extremely stupid of Labour.

“We vote for a party not a person.”

Well the Labour members who paid £6 a month (for I think at least 6 months) are going to get to vote for the person - if there is a contest.
Everyone else, including those who voted based on the Manifesto in the Last Election, but are not members - do not get a say. And those who did not vote Labour, won’t get a say either.

So what percentage of voters are getting a say? Vanishingly small.
Now that is really going to win them the next election?

He's currently a back bencher with no prospect of anything else
He thinks the writing is on the wall for Starmer and probably the labour party
He thinks reform is a massive threat
He expects AB to remember who helped him on the way up.

I don’t understand how AB can help Josh Simons though, short of finding him a seat once AB gets back into govt (if AB gets back into govt)?

Make him a spad, give him a seat in the House of Lords etc

politicians of all stripes seem to have no problem helping their mates tbh

Josh Simons has been on a journey (I think someone shared upthread) - Head of Labour Together, campaigning to get KS elected, commissioned a dodgy report about journalists as part of KS election campaign, gained a seat, was promoted to Cabinet Office role, dodgy commission was revealed, was cleared of breaching code but resigned anyway, then stepped aside for AB, main rival to KS

Who knows what his motivation is and therefore what reward he is hoping for

sounds like someone who knows where the bodies are buried