Update to AIBU to refuse Aunt's fwb claim on her estate.

[Sleepneededprettyplease]

Posting here because it is where I put the first thread.

A brief summery is that my Aunt died and her FWB is trying to say that he is entitled to part of her estate because she had asked me to allow him to stay in a house she had invested in for me. Anyway if you want the full story feel free to read what I put on the first thread.

Anyway the main thing is that he is now sueing in the courts. I need a bit of a hand hold please. My lawyers have suggested getting a barristers opinion so I am just waiting for that. I wouldn't even mind if it was possible to just go to mediation but he wants the house for the rest of his life and won't consider anything else.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5505433-aibu-to-refuse-aunts-fwb-claim-on-her-estate?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I have nothing to suggest just to say it all seems desperately unfair and I am so sorry

Same here, the law is ridiculous sometimes and what's the point of a will if you can end up in situations like this

It's not the law really, it's the system that scaffolds it. The principle of 'access to justice' is two-tier. Apparently if you have deep pockets and money to burn, you can run a case to a high enough court to have the law applied. At the lower levels though, there's a fixation on 'mediation' and settlement even for chancers. It becomes an expensive game of chicken or letting the brazen in society win.

ETA the case law supports OP on this, and judges really do respect the letter of the will so that is important evidence. It's difficult to win a claim like his. However there's a chasm and a LOT of cash between the law being on your side and actually enforcing it.

What's fwb

Just as a warning- the house I live in was bought after a similar dispute. Lawyers fees were £340k. We bought the house for £360k.

The woman who won said she didn't care, she just didn't want a 'golddigger' getting her late sons house. But what a price to pay- she had to pay the gold-diggers costs despite winning.

I am assembling evidence to show the strength of our case. My lawyers suggest it will encourage him to settle.

I can't afford the full fight.

I will check the case law later. I'm Dashing around rather today and don't have time to look back through the docs right now. I didn't want you to think I am ignoring you though.

What an awful position to be in OP, I am so sorry. Personally, rather than see him have it, I’d spend every penny of the inheritance on challenging him in court if necessary. Then there is nothing for him to use to pay his housing as his claim is against the estate, not you.

I'd move in with him & make his life hell! Or even better, move a certain male relative in and no attempt would have to be made to make his life hell, it would just happen.

I am so sorry. This reallly sucks. Anyone out there able to procure a rent a poltergeist to BOO him out?!

I would consider this too.

That's actually quite a good idea!

Also - as he's not paying rent or anything official, and the house is yours, can you cut off the electric/gas supply? Who is paying the bill - like for water and all of the utlities?

This is more or less what happened with my family member.

They had spent ££££ on renovating their house before sale (they had already moved elsewhere) and squatters moved in. The squatters trashed the place. So the family member basically moved a guy in who was ex army and he made their lives so uncomfortable that the squatters all left very quickly and without complaint.

Op I’m so sorry that this has continued to be so difficult and stressful for you. The court system is sometimes so frustrating … been there, done that!

Friend with benefits

Wow - that's shocking. I think PP's are correct that the lower levels of the court concentrate on mediation, and don't necessarily apply the law. Maybe Judge was wary of making this man homeless.
But for him to lie in court and claim they were cohabiting makes all the difference - why weren't you able to bring more evidence at this stage, when they were allowed to change their argument? Seems unfair.
There is definitely a terrible lesson in all this. Never ever allow a cocklodger to get their knees under the kitchen table, as a favour. You and your Aunt were being kind and neither of you could have foreseen this.
Different I know, but many decades ago, DH and I allowed friends (a couple) to move in with us "for a couple of weeks" after they had been travelling. Of course they stayed far longer, and many months later we put the house on the market to relocate. We even moved out, leaving them there, and I began to fear they would never leave. I had visions of them still being there when the new buyers turned up with a removals van! Friends can turn into cheeky fuckers very quickly.

This is very shocking, I'm so sorry op.
With the proposed law for unmarried couples to have rights over each other's possessions and property, and in the light of how things have gone with this case, I think no one should ever risk letting a potential romantic partner over the threshold. Actually to be on the safe side don't even give them your address!

This is wild. When you think of all the women who are in full long-term proper relationships with men and have children together but never have any claim on the house when things go south and the guy gets to keep everything. Sickening. Sounds like you got extremely unlucky with the judge. Wish there was a magic fix but just hope you can get luckier and get some justice before this ends.

I’m sorry it’s gone this way, and I understand why you have been upset about this whole situation. So I will just say:

• you have done what you can to ensure your aunt’s wishes were carried out (it’s not your fault the law has effectively disregarded this)
• yes you may have to pay him off, but not voluntarily (by the time you do this you will be in a situation where it’s that or lose much more of the estate, which your aunt would not want)
• the one thing he actually wants is to stay in your house, and long-term he is NOT going to get that

I hope it can all be tied up for you soon.

I'm so, so angry on your behalf. I would be tempted to make this old bastard's life as miserable as possible, he more than deserves it.

This is just awful. It seems so inconsistent. The law should be consistent but it seems that individual judges can decide.

Someone I know had lived with her partner for 25 years. She treated his children as her own. When he died without a will his children threw her out of the house because she wasn't on the deeds and so wasn't entitled to anything. They didn't even let her have any furniture as she couldn't prove she had bought any of it. It's up for sale at the moment and it breaks my heart to see the photos on Rightmove with all her treasures on display.

I wonder if the judge in your case was more sympathetic because your aunts guy is male.

I think this too.
Or cut off the utilities, if that’s not going to get you into trouble.

OK, I may be oversimplifying here but can you not charge him full market rent, paid by the estate, as the law is suggesting? Because that money (from the estate) effectively remains in your hands, to use as you wish - such as split with your sister as intended with money from the estate. Essentially he wins by being able to stay in the house but the money from the estate remains with you rather than being used to pay him off or to pay lawyers and on the basis that he's 86 it might (hopefully) not be too long. Meanwhile you can conduct an inappropriate hate campaign to make his life there hell.

It's not the result you wanted but ultimately the estate money goes to you rather than him and it doesn't all go on lawyers.

So if he is allowed to live in it-what is he responsible for?

Bills? Upkeep?

Is there any sort of contract that if broken means he can be turfed out?

This is what I can't fathom. There is no status that involves just getting to live in a house that's not yours on paper in any way and that you're not paying for in any way and no one alive wants you there not least the real owner. It's like he's in some magic twilight zone where he gets everything for nothing and the judge has perpetuated that. Surely he should win some MN award for top cocklodger of the century, transcending death, the law, common sense and all logic!

He is paying the utilities. Not rent though. I pay landlords and buildings insurances, gas safety certificate and ground rent.

I want need some of that money for IVF and to pay off my mortgage. I won't cut my nose off to spite my face.