Laurel Hubbard - radio 4 Today programme this morning

[cariadlet]

Just a heads up to everyone that this is going to be on this morning's Today programme. I'm sure that the main slant will be on what a pioneer she is but they did just play a clip of someone saying that biology trumps identity. Might be worth listening to.

Nice, listening now.

If its anything like the article on BBC Sport...

They're discussing it now

“We’ll be talking about transgender sports”

Not about how women’s sport is being destroyed?

There's a mention in the sports coverage but there's a proper segment later. I wish they would say when.

@cariadlet
Yeah same, I can't spend 3 hours listening!

07:04 a brief mention.....

On now.

Apparently NZ committee mantra is all about people feeling safe.

IOC guidelines should be changed as unfair.

Speaking with the expert scientist - will release guidelines in 2-3 months.

Seb Coe is saying gender should not trump biology.

Joanne Harper transwoman now on…

Most women have 2 nanomols but IOC allow 10 for transgender (male to female)
Even Joanne thinks should be 5 nanomols which she alleges would make fairer. Calls women ciswomen.
She will probably finish middle of the pack.

A man presenter asked two other men what they thought.

NO FEMALE INPUT WHATSOEVER. Even though it's women who are set to be adversely affected.

BUT Seb Coe said things that if said by a female would result in death and rape threats and demands for sacking/resigning.

The interview with Joanne Harper was frustrating. When she was asked why World Rugby had banned transwomen from competing with women, she said that transwomen are bigger and stronger. The interviewer should have followed up on this and said that surely this gives transwomen an unfair advantage in weightlifting. But he already had a line of questioning about testosterone levels prepared so just kept on with that.

Seb Coe has gone up in my estimation.

Very annoying how every time LH was mentioned, it was followed up with comments about "other women" instead of "women".

Just tweeted Today about the interview.

JH was clearly unhappy at being introduced as a transwoman. I thought a lot of the questions to JH were well judged to inform a general audience of the problems. Frustrating that no women asked for their input. Sharron Davies as an ex-olympian would have been ideal.

Whoever that was from Loughborough university came across as incredibly unacademic.

I think theres going to he a strategic angle at play here and LH will have been paid off not to win so that when the testosterone level requirements are reexamined they can hold today up as an example of why it's totally a fair fight.

Emailed the Today programme.

Would be great if other Mumsnetters added their views:

[email protected]

Have you seen this from the IOC

International Olympic Committee (IOC) medical and scientific director Richard Budgett has acknowledged current guidelines around transgender athletes are no longer fit for purpose, with the organisation set to publish an updated framework to guide International Federations in devising their own rules.

Full article:
www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1111014/ioc-transgender-framework-olympic-games

I'm aware it includes his statement TWAW and ducks the matter by pushing it back to each sport, but I think even an acknowledgment the current rules aren't right is a good thing.

I emailed them too.

I always sign off with with try to do better.

I think it’s worth repeating that there is no chance of LH winning. LH is 20 years older than their competitors, suffered a number of injuries & just isn’t that good.

The comparator for Hubbard is not a super fit 23 year old woman, the comparator for LH is whether a middle aged woman with a similar injury history would have a hope of qualifying for the Olympics. They would not.

TRA don’t want Hubbard there because they’ll win, they want them there because it opens the door the same way the door was opened the first time time a man was awarded a prize designed to recognise business women (pip bunce), when TW were given spaces on programmes to improve female representation in politics (Heather peto), TW were allowed into women’s prisons (Karen white), a TW was given a job earmarked for women running a service for rape victims (mridul wahda) & TW were centred on international women’s day (everywhere all the time!)

Hubbard is just pushing the door open for younger fitter much more competitive TW to March through it - unless the IOC grow a fucking back bone!!

What shocked me (forgive my ignorance) was that no gender realignment surgery was required!

I had thought this was a minimum requirement but it appears any man can say he is a woman and go compete ? (subject to the rules of the governing sports federation)

Great post @Theeyeballsinthesky It's not about LH potentially winning, at this stage, it's about taking the place which should have gone to a female.

Discussing on Radio 5 now.

@FlowerArranger

Emailed the Today programme.

Would be great if other Mumsnetters added their views:

[email protected]

Good idea. I've just emailed.

@Covidforever

What shocked me (forgive my ignorance) was that no gender realignment surgery was required!

I had thought this was a minimum requirement but it appears any man can say he is a woman and go compete ? (subject to the rules of the governing sports federation)

Provided they reduce their testosterone level to that required which is still miles higher than that of women

I think though that is 100% the issue. Tje vast majority of people think when we talk about TW in sport, we’re talking about someone who has had significant surgery & medication. We are not