What do you think of this? Trans related

[NatureNeverRushes]

This is a link to an article in an irish newspaper.
Irish feminists must avoid British trap of transphobia (via @IrishTimes) www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irish-feminists-must-avoid-british-trap-of-transphobia-1.4507862
Interested in your views about it. I think there's a lot of sense in it.

It's a bit vague isn't it? If rapists in women's prisons is such a great idea then she should say it straight out. Ditto male bodied people up against women's bodies in sport.

What did you like about it?

I didn't think it was vague. The article wasn't about prisons, or sports. I thought it captured nicely how women and trans women can be supportive of each other. That's what I liked about it.

Agreed,OP. The sky in Ireland has not fallen down because of self ID.

I didn’t read anything about how trans women need to understand and support women

It's a funny article really, it says a lot of things but doesn't back them up, like:
For trans-exclusionary feminists, there’s a lot riding on being able to show that Ireland is not fine at all
but then doesn't show It's "fine" either

Search for Barbie Kardashian. The sky may indeed fall in for any unfortunate female prisoner who encounters this person in Limerick Jail.

The article also fails to address the key point that Self Id was brought into law in Ireland with zero scrutiny or debate. The vast majority of Irish people have no idea such a law is in place.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I didn’t read anything about how trans women need to understand and support women

Me neither

N4ish you beat me to it.

Of course self ID works Ireland. Barbie Kardashian has stated their intention to rape and murder women so they've been housed in a women's prison to facilitate this. Is this the kind of compassion for transwomen the journalist thinks we should be showing if we want to avoid being accused of transphobia?

twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1310981283900686336?s=20

I think it was a little dismissive. The sky hasnt fallen but I think there needs to be room for those with genuine concerns to be heard. I actually support trans rights but I also recognise that upholding some of those rights may impinge on the rights of others, its unfair to pretend otherwise. There are already real life examples of this. This causes me a lot of internal conflict and its upsetting that there is no room for discussion for fear of being labelled a bigot. I think it is to the determinant of the trans movement as people in the middle are pushed to the "terf" end as it's the only place they can openly explore their issues or concerns.

But she even mentions prisons herself just not the implications of self ID for the often vulnerable women in prison.

She says, "Some UK feminist groups opposed self-id for a number of reasons, including the fear it would make women vulnerable to predatory trans women (or men pretending to be trans women) in single-sex spaces such as changing rooms, women’s shelters or prisons. "

Then completely fails to say how that was resolved. I think she wants her reader not to think about the reality which is penises in women's prisons. If yo have self ID what is there to stop a sex offender saying they are a woman if they want to serve their time in women's prisons.

If Ireland is having such a success with it then why not tell us how? I never followed the Barbie Kardashian story to the end. What did happen there?

I think it's great when people are mutually supportive. I think there are plenty of trans women who support feminists who point out problems with self ID.

I never followed the Barbie Kardashian story to the end. What did happen there?

The judge acknowledged Barbie was a significant risk to women but because they had self ID'd as a woman they had not choice but to place Barbie in a women's prison. Barbie was assessed by a psychologist who stated Barbie did not have gender dysphoria, they have taken no hormones and had no surgery, so a dangerous biological male is in a women's prison because of self ID.

We know how that worked out with Karen White.

Wondering if the headline writer is entirely on board with the agenda here, given they've smuggled in a notorious transphobic slur…

@NatureNeverRushes

I didn't think it was vague. The article wasn't about prisons, or sports. I thought it captured nicely how women and trans women can be supportive of each other. That's what I liked about it.

That's how I read it too. Although not sure how the voting works?! Your YABU and YANBU are unclear lol

I think there are problems in Ireland actually with self id. There's a woman's group on Twitter who were saying tonight a transactivist has doxed their founder who has a young daughter. All this whilst womens safety is a huge topic of concern. Utterly disgusting behaviour and only ever seems to come from one direction.

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1370509666069966856?s=09

She says 'Hi Sal, it’s Laoise, they doxxed me day 5 & day 10 after I launched The Countess. Presumably bc I just organised a successful GC conference, the first of its kind in Ireland; they are at it again. This time ramping things up by posting my former address & about my young daughter"

I thought it captured nicely how women and trans women can be supportive of each other.

How do you feel trans women are supportive of women?

@PreachyGreen

It's a bit vague isn't it? If rapists in women's prisons is such a great idea then she should say it straight out. Ditto male bodied people up against women's bodies in sport.

What did you like about it?

I had the exact same thoughts tbh.

I'd surprised she didn't take the time to interview some irish women and finding out what great craic it is being locked up with a rapist.

IMO Biological men playing irish sports (fairly high contact) in a female team is not a recipe for success.

Is this an Irish woman writing the article? Or someone Canadian lecturing Irish women? Because Canada is down the rabbit hole well and truly, no debate no dissent. I think you go to prison there for even thinking along gender critical lines.

My view is there is a debate to be had. I've just seen an article from the US where a woman lrisoner was raped immediately a male was transferred to the women's prison. And there are apparently 150 others waiting to be transferred. Those poor women. Heartbreaking.

mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

An employee at a Women's Prison in Washington reports a woman was immediately raped upon the transfer of a male convicted sex offender, who identifies as transgender, and women are terrified as 150 other men are in line to be transferred.

Utter bollix

If I was a professor at a journalism school, I would give it low marks. She makes statements like the sky has not fallen - fine, but you actually have to give some kind of supporting evidence.

You can't just take the approach "I haven't heard of any problems so there aren't any." Do a little research, even f you think you already know the answer! Not doing so is just laziness.