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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think this is bonkers & discriminatory ?

31 replies

HeresIdea852 · 01/08/2018 11:18

If you were a man but have decided you are now a woman you can be a Mason. If you have always been a woman you still cannot be a Mason. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/01/freemasons-allow-women-members-first-time-joined-men/

OP posts:
LellyM · 01/08/2018 11:19

Essentially it seems to me this is just a way of Masons saying they don't believe in transgender.

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 11:21

Well from a logical point of view the masons would need to decide whether they consider the person's gender as the one corresponding to their body or the gender they are living as. If they refuse to accept that someone's gender may not be the one they were born with then I guess their decision is logical (and they would need to reject someone who was born in a woman's body and transitioned to live as a man).

Original poster
HeresIdea852 · 01/08/2018 11:32

LellyM I read it as they were trying to be more inclusive but only in the absolutely smallest way possible. Your take is interesting as I wouldn't have thought they would want to draw attention to themselves as being even more out of step with modern world.

OP posts:
Rebooting · 01/08/2018 11:33

Men can join
Men who IDas women can join

Women cannot join
Women who ID as men cannot join

It’s the Mason’s making sure they continue to exclude women from their society. Did you not get the email OP? It’s fine to exclude wimmz. As long as the menz are looked after.

drspouse · 01/08/2018 11:37

So men who identify as women can be in the Masons AND in women's refuges.
But biological women who identify as both can't be in either.

YeTalkShiteHen · 01/08/2018 11:50

So men who identify as women can be in the Masons AND in women's refuges.
But biological women who identify as both can't be in either

That about sums up the batshit new ideas on self ID. Fucks sake, it’s getting out of hand.

ADastardlyThing · 01/08/2018 11:52

This reply has been deleted

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YeTalkShiteHen · 01/08/2018 11:59

But then the Masons are discriminatory by nature aren’t they? Exclusionary and pretty dodgy too!

NinetySixer · 01/08/2018 12:00

Are you really shocked that the Masons is discriminatory?

I have had many encounters with the masons - different lodges across the country and all bar one man was a misogynistic wank badger. With a self importance so inflated I’m upraised they could fit their heads as far up each other’s arses as they do.

I would think that their ‘rules’ are a reflection on not agreeing with Gender transitioning.

Original poster
HeresIdea852 · 01/08/2018 12:05

No, not all surprised that they are discriminatory. Doesn't mean they can't be called out on it. Surprised they think including those who transition but still not those born female is a good look.

OP posts:
slashlover · 01/08/2018 12:23

I though that everyone on here believed that if a man identified as a woman then he was still a man?

ADastardlyThing · 01/08/2018 12:29

Correct slash, a man who identifies as a woman is still a man. Seems the freemasons agree!

slashlover · 01/08/2018 12:32

So why are people complaining? Can't complain just because it doesn't suit you when it goes both ways.

ADastardlyThing · 01/08/2018 12:35

::::::::::whoooosh::::::::::

frogsoup · 01/08/2018 12:40

Basically women are shafted every time. Remember a transwoman is a woman, but a transman is not a man in the eyes of the law, at least not if they have the temerity to want to inherit a title and the family estate.

bonitabonita · 01/08/2018 15:39

This is the masons saying
'Trans women are men'
Isn't it?

UpstartCrow · 01/08/2018 15:45

Where are all the death threats? The cries of 'transphobia'? The allegations of literal Naziism?

Bizzylizzyloo · 01/08/2018 15:57

Not really surprising that the masons are transphobic, is it? They're hardly the most liberal and forward thinking organisation!

Bizzylizzyloo · 01/08/2018 15:59

not that anyone with a basic level of education does anyway

I have two UG degrees, a masters and a professional diploma and I believe trans women are women. Just let me know how much more education I need to complete to attain a basic level, please Smile

YeTalkShiteHen · 01/08/2018 16:02

@Bizzylizzyloo genuine question, no agenda.

When are they women? When they self ID, or when they are medically diagnosed and in the process of transitioning? After the transition?

Self ID is the part I have an issue with because it’s so open to abuse by men who want to access victims.

I’d consider a transwoman post transition to be a female, but not before.

YeTalkShiteHen · 01/08/2018 16:04

In the sense of being prepared to share women only spaces I should have clarified.

hmmwhatatodo · 01/08/2018 16:04

I still can’t seem to figure out what Masons are really all about.

twoshedsjackson · 01/08/2018 16:05

It's just as bonkers as the Catholic priest thing. RC priests are supposed to be unmarried and celibate, but a married C of E vicar who transfers to Rome can remain married. And I know someone who did it, in a huff when the Church of England started ordaining women. (!) Never really got the "got to have a willy to be a vicar" thing, especially when the Bible says that in God's eyes there is no male and female, slave and free etc.

HainaultViaNewburyPark · 01/08/2018 16:11

If you are male: gender is immaterial - you can join regardless of how you identify

If you are female: gender is of critical importance, and will be used to determine whether or not you can join

Erm. Okay then...
Confused

Hyppolyta · 01/08/2018 16:43

BizzyLizzyLoo can you please explain what common thing both biological males with genders and biological females without genders share, to class them as the same?

Its the one question no one can answer.