Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not know whether I was raped?

48 replies

reallybadidea · 20/02/2018 19:01

Been thinking a lot bit about this recently. If someone has sex with you when you're absolutely paralytically drunk, to the extent that you have very little memory of what even happened, is that rape? Even if you would have probably enthusiastically consented had you been sober? And ended up in a relationship (of sorts) for a year afterwards?

This was a long time ago, and the relationship itself fucked me up mentally, but it's only recently that I've started to feel quite angry about how it started. But I don't know whether that is reasonable or not.

OP posts:
LivingInMidnight · 20/02/2018 19:07

You were unable to consent so yes, I would say that was rape.

kaytee87 · 20/02/2018 19:11

If you were unable to consent, then it was rape.
I'm sorry this happened to you.

cricketballs3 · 20/02/2018 19:15

enthusiastically consented had you been sober?

This bloke was also in this mindset and was also under the same influence of alcohol - so why is it different?

kaytee87 · 20/02/2018 19:19

Where does op say the man was drunk?

Assuming op did not tell the man she wanted to have sex with him, he had no reason to believe she was consenting to sex.

PaperdollCartoon · 20/02/2018 19:19

Yes this is rape. I think some on MN take it a bit too far but this is pretty open and shut to me. I’m sorry you’re dealing with it, I had a similar experience (though it didn’t turn into a relationship) maybe some counselling would help you explore your feelings about this and the relationship that came after.

BookHelpPlease · 20/02/2018 19:22

I think it matters a lot as to the state of the man. If he was as drunk as you then it's different to him being stone sober.

Flypaperforarseholes · 20/02/2018 19:23

cricketballs3 how do you know he was under the same influence of alcohol?!
Having sex with someone when they are not capable of consent - whether due to alcohol/drugs/injury - is rape. It's pretty straightforward.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 20/02/2018 19:23

If you're unable to consent....

Roaring drunk /unconscious... You absolutely CANNOT give consent.... The law is clear on this

Shadow1986 · 20/02/2018 19:28

I don’t think anyone who wasn’t actually there can definitively say yes you were raped or no you were not raped.

You say you were paralletic and have very little memory. How do you know if you have no memory that you didn’t instigate the sex, and were enthusiastic to have sex. Years ago (teens) I was so drunk that I have zero memory of a whole night of my life. My friends told me the next day I had kissed someone and I was the one all over him. I have no memory whatsoever of this. I was horrified of the encounter.

I’m not saying you weren’t raped, and I’m sorry your having a hard time with it.

But it’s so hard, especially when drink has been involved. There will always be an argument about men not taking advantage of drunk women, but unless they are drunk unconscious or saying no, a man may not gauage how drunk a woman is etc.

Such a difficult one Flowers

caroldecker · 20/02/2018 19:29

Unconscious - rape
Can't remember - possibly, however you may have been enthusiastically consenting which you don't remember.

Dljlr · 20/02/2018 19:34

why is it different? - because the drunk male is the owner of the penis. Just like if 2 drunk people get into a car and kill someone, the driver is the person penalised, not the passenger.

YearOfYouRemember · 20/02/2018 19:51

While I can see why people are stating this is rape I am not sure it I should really helpful or beneficial to tell someone they are been raped when maybe they didn't think it was anything but drunken sex.

When I lost my virginity I didn't consent. We were kissing then next thing his penis was in me. With another boy I woke to find him having sex with me. Having been SA as a child, or even without that, to have someone tell me I'd been raped twice would not be helpful to me.

reallybadidea - I hope you're okay. Be careful of making yourself a victim on others say so. Even the laws say so.

Original poster
reallybadidea · 20/02/2018 19:52

Thanks for the gentle replies, thought I might get a hard time tbh.

In answer to a few questions, I think he was certainly fairly drunk, but I don't believe he was as drunk as I was, based on the fact that I was unable to walk and I think he carried me up the stairs to his flat.

Obviously I'm not going to go the police about this now, I'm just trying to reframe the experience in my memory. He eventually left me for someone else and I have spent the past 20 years feeling that I wasn't good enough for him and vaguely hope that one day we would get together again. I'm now starting to think that perhaps I had a very lucky escape. Counselling probably a good call I think.

OP posts:
Whatshallidonowpeople · 20/02/2018 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thedogsmells · 20/02/2018 19:57

Unlikely as he carried her up the stairs what eh? Hmm

BasilTheCat · 20/02/2018 19:58

Sorry for the very ignorant question - I don't mean to cause any offence and of course sympathies to the OP:
If the man was also as paralytic drunk/ couldn't remember the next morning, as in too much for him to consent, what happens then?

Notevilstepmother · 20/02/2018 19:59

You might want to google the legal definition of rape. It’s not something that can be committed without owning a penis.

BasilTheCat · 20/02/2018 21:13

It just seems a bit unfair if every time two very drunk people have sex it is automatically rape? If that is the case then thousands of people will be getting raped every weekend?

kaytee87 · 20/02/2018 21:26

@BasilTheCat it is rape if the women is so drunk, she is unable to consent.

We're not talking about people having a few drinks before mutually wanted sex.

A man should have clear consent before he has sex with someone. This is something that needs to be drummed into people.

kaytee87 · 20/02/2018 21:27

Also men that are passed out drunk can't sustain erections.

TinaMena · 20/02/2018 21:32

You might want to google the legal definition of rape. It’s not something that can be committed without owning a penis.
But someone not in possession of a penis can be convicted of sexual assault, upon conviction subject to the same punishment as someone convicted of rape, if the person they sexually assaulted couldn't consent because they were drunk. Not saying this was the case here, but it can work the other way round too

ThisLittleKitty · 20/02/2018 21:36

Meh. I use to always have sex with my ex whilst drunk there's two times were my mind is completely blank about what happened. I wasn't raped. I think people throw around that word really easily on here.

BasilTheCat · 21/02/2018 07:34

I really don't want to minimise the impact of rape so apologies OP.
Agree with @ThisLittleKitty that rape is easily thrown around here. In this case we don't know if she was saying "yes" to him despite being drunk. Should he have formally assessed her mental capacity for making this decision? Should he have asked her to sign a consent form? I have a DS and fear that boys are being falsely accused of rape when in cases like this no one really knows what happened.

SharronNeedles · 21/02/2018 07:48

I agree with basil and littlekitty
I have drunkenly had sex many times. I have been the instigator, insisted I was fine but still have no memory of actually doing it. Also if he was drunk too then he wouldn't have been thinking clearly and perhaps didn't realise how drunk you were!

BlarneyRubble · 21/02/2018 08:05

It's a very tricky one OP. As others have said you may have consented whilst drunk (obviously I am assuming you were not completely unconscious). If you were unconscious then it was obviously rape. However loss of memory after heavy drinking does not necessarily equate to having been unconscious during the period you can't remember.

If you and he were drinking heavily you may well have agreed to sex even if you can't remember it in the morning. Equally you may not have BUT really you don't know and won't ever know so I'm not sure that re-framing it as rape is necessarily helpful or a positive step forward.

I really feel for you OP and I hope you find a way through this.