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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not understand why a crotch grab would result in PTSD?

64 replies

BluePancakes · 09/11/2017 12:50

Is it just that I've been so conditioned as a female that my body is not my own/it's other people's property that a crotch grab would be humiliating or embarrassing, but I'd move on pretty quickly? Whereas if a bloke had his crotch grabbed, especially by another bloke, it's so unexpected that it could affect their whole mental health?

Is the reason that "crotch gets grabbed" has made the headlines mainly because it's a man making the accusation, whereas there needs to be many more women making an accusation to make it stick? And whilst, I'm sure the media is in hyper-drive because these are famous people, I feel that if an average woman was to be grabbed by an average man, it would just be brushed under the carpet...

Apologies if there's a thread on this already, but I can't get my head around it.

(And though I hope it doesn't need to be said, I'm not dismissing the severity of any act of sexual harassment or assault, I'm just wondering more about how conditioned society is regarding the different treatment of the sexes.)

OP posts:
MargoLovebutter · 09/11/2017 13:01

Maybe it depends on age & expectations.

I grew up expecting to be leered at, groped, wolf-whistled etc, believing that every male of the species wanted to have their wicked way with me. The way I was taught to deal with it, was to behave well and avoid situations where this may happen. If it did happen, then I was to deal with it, by coming over all 'head matron' and telling them in no uncertain terms to get their hands off me, as I was not that kind of girl. That was just the way it was and there was absolutely no suggestion that this happening was anything other than normal and to be dealt with myself. No one ever said that it should be reported or was totally unacceptable from the male perspective. The onus was on me to be 'good' and be the upholder of appropriate behaviour.

Attitudes have rightly changed considerably and maybe if you are groped nowadays, as a younger woman, you might feel so violated that you get PTSD.

MargoLovebutter · 09/11/2017 13:02

Doh, sorry I've just realised I missed the point about it being the man making the accusation of crotch grabbing. Although the point of expectations probably still stands.

dinosaursandtea · 09/11/2017 13:03

If someone grabbed my crotch I would absolutely report it to the police. Stop minimising, OP.

Smarshian · 09/11/2017 13:04

Recently this happened to a female member of my work team by a male member. He was dismissed and faced criminal charges. Just not in the paper.

Splinterz · 09/11/2017 13:05

PTSD, as in dealing with the aftermath of a car bomb in Kabul that wiped out your mates and half a market full of women and children. Its now a hijacked phrase, over used and devalued, unfortunately.

Ttbb · 09/11/2017 13:09

i think that the negative feelings come less from the groping (it's really not a big deal in isolation and easily a misunderstanding) but more from a failure/inability to stand up for oneself. Usually when I encounter such rudeness I usually give the grouper/catcaller a good telling off and forget about it. Occasionally I don't (if my children are with me) and then I get very annoyed for the rest of the day.

BroomstickOfLove · 09/11/2017 13:10

It's not a hijacked phrase, but a diagnosable mental illness with identifiable symptoms. Some people come through horrific experiences without getting it, others get it after incidents which can seem quite minor from the outside. It doesn't mean they don't have PTSD.

phoenixAgainAgainAgain · 09/11/2017 13:10

Well played OP.

You "minimised" sexual assault which will rile all the feminists, played the 'famous people play to different rules' as well as opening the 'men get better treatment / concern' angle.

A fantastic post which is sure to run to several hundred posts each one unoriginal.

ghostyslovesheets · 09/11/2017 13:10

PTSD is as above misunderstood by many people - and being made to feel scared and powerless is as much of a trigger for it as a car bomb Hmm

Original poster
BluePancakes · 09/11/2017 13:12

If someone grabbed my crotch I would absolutely report it to the police. Stop minimising, OP.

Clearly didn't read the bit about not dismissing the seriousness of sexual assault. Nor did I say it shouldn't be reported to the police. Hmm

I grew up expecting to be leered at, groped, wolf-whistled etc, believing that every male of the species wanted to have their wicked way with me. ... That was just the way it was and there was absolutely no suggestion that this happening was anything other than normal and to be dealt with myself.

Yes, I suppose, being born in the 80s, this was what I was taught growing up too. I agree that it is good society is changing.

Are any [female] posters younger, who would care to share what they would do too? Is it a generational thing, that a crotch-grab alone would lead to PTSD?

OP posts:
Splinterz · 09/11/2017 13:12

What evs.

It's like Dr Google in this place. Ooh theres a nice set of words, I'll have some of that. Hmm

BroomstickOfLove · 09/11/2017 13:12

And I have been in a bomb blast, with no mental health consequences, but did have long-term effects (not PTSD, but a debilitating phobia) from being pushed into a puddle by a dog when I was a toddler.

thesaurusgirl · 09/11/2017 13:16

There's a biological and psychological checklist as PTSD has very distinctive symptoms.

Some people are more likely to get it than not; nobody yet knows why.

It's not the severity of the cause but the symptoms that are important.

Original poster
BluePancakes · 09/11/2017 13:18

It's...a diagnosable mental illness with identifiable symptoms. ...others get it after incidents which can seem quite minor from the outside. It doesn't mean they don't have PTSD.

PTSD is as above misunderstood by many people - and being made to feel scared and powerless is as much of a trigger for it as a car bomb

Ok, that I understand. Thank you.

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheets · 09/11/2017 13:18

yeah 'what evs' how mature - have you had ptsd - because I have and it's fucking horrible

Mittens1969 · 09/11/2017 13:20

It's not a hijacked phrase, but a diagnosable mental illness with identifiable symptoms. Some people come through horrific experiences without getting it, others get it after incidents which can seem quite minor from the outside. It doesn't mean they don't have PTSD.

This 100%. I have it because of childhood SA. The memories were repressed for years but the PTSD symptoms were evident; I just didn’t understand why.

Queeniebed · 09/11/2017 13:20

Its an emotional response to trauma. I know plenty of soldiers who have been to war and not suffered PTSD, and plenty who have. Its always personal

derxa · 09/11/2017 13:23

PTSD? Crotch grabbing from either sex to either sex is equally reviled.
Surely?

Original poster
BluePancakes · 09/11/2017 13:26

Yes, I think that to me it's just expected* that a man would be "handsy", so doesn't seem like that big a deal, but other people would have a differing emotional response.

*When I was a teen/young adult. Now I'd slap anyone who tried that with me and give them a mouthful too.

OP posts:
ToastyFingers · 09/11/2017 13:26

I'm 26, have had my crotch, arse and breasts grabbed by strangers (all men in my experience) in pubs and clubs a few times before I had children and stopped going out.

It was very much a case of put up, shut up and if you don't like it go somewhere else.
I can't imagine the police would have done anything.

BertrandRussell · 09/11/2017 13:27

"Is it a generational thing, that a crotch-grab alone would lead to PTSD?"

No. It's a circumstances and individual experience thing. What's your point, OP?

dogfish1 · 09/11/2017 13:27

The vast majority of men and women who have their crotches grabbed in one-off incidents neither report it nor suffer PTSD. What happens in a single celebrity case is a poor guide to anything else. Am a bloke, my Brazilian lodger grabbed my crotch about 5 years ago and had a bit of a feel, I shoved him off. Think it would have been more threatening if I was a woman tbh.

WomblingThree · 09/11/2017 13:38

I didn’t read the OP as minimising, more a case of: women have been putting up with being groped or grabbed or touched for years and aren’t claiming PTSD from it, and yet as soon as it happens to a man, it’s news.

GracielaSabrocita · 09/11/2017 13:40

In what way is your lodger's nationality of relevance?

ZaphodBeeblerox · 09/11/2017 13:44

PTSD doesn’t have to be from a car bomb. I’ve been sexually assaulted as a child, got over it with some therapy and it doesn’t affect me in a significant manner. I’ve also been in a crash cart emergency room scenario - I still get vivid flashbacks and dealing with it has been a struggle. Two quite traumatic experiences but others might feel like one is more or less traumatic than the other.

My point is that people react to things in highly individual ways. Fwiw - growing up in a culture and time where assault and harassment of women was just so normalised I didn’t feel traumatised by the groping, crotch grabbing, random copping of feels in crowded public transport, seeing men masturbate on buses near us etc that I was so often subjected to as a teenager. It just felt like that’s how many men are.
Now looking back it makes me sad and angry that it was so normalised, and hopeful that it isn’t for the next generation of women.

Personally, my first reaction to someone saying they got PTSD from being groped would be to laugh. But I’d stop, and have a word with myself, and hopefully be understanding of the fact that just because it’s normalised for me doesn’t mean it is for others and being upset or affected by it doesn’t mean they’re a “snowflake” etc.