Help see why/how people struggle financially

[MymumandI]

I have nc'd for this

My mum and I were having a discussion about debt and it led to a small debate. One of us thinks that people get into debt through frivolous spending (not buying Chanel or anything, but maybe going on holiday when you can't afford it). The other thinks some people get into debt because they can't afford the essentials (e.g. rent and childcare) .

I know this is cheeky , but is there anyone who can help settle this? I'm not looking for a bun fight, but more of people saying why they are in debt/struggling.

I will explain in more detail about what we both think later. Eant the OP to be neutral (ish).

Surely either situation is possible.

Both sections of people get into debt for both reasons and many others

I'm not in incontrolable debt but debt I do have is because I spent money I didn't need to spend on things I didn't need to buy. It's all being paid off though and isn't a concern.

There is drip feeding for neutrality and then there is this

In the pedantic sense, any specific rent and childcare are choices, so still the former category. But things aren't a 'choice' in real life if you don't have other actual real options that are equivalent or better, so the second is the case.

Which is basically, mmmm myself and mum are pondering why on earth you happened to get into that situation mmmm
Sorry to be antsy

Both reasons.
And possibly others.
Is this one of those 'oh young people can't afford to buy a house because they have iPhones' arguments where housing costs are forgotten?

where I live most people get into serious debt because of ill-health.

Well... You are both partially right surely? Some get credit cards when they turn 18 and blow right up to the limit. Others get made redundant or ill and can't keep up with household costs. Some people can't pay rent, or can but can't pay unexpected bills, because they're paying off debts so can't save a buffer.

Surely both as options?

My grandparents really struggled because they were supposed to get maintenance for us kids. They got landed with 4 children unexpectedly and then when grandad got made redundant places like housing benefit took the amount they were supposed to get into account despite the fact the can never got a penny from my father. So every week they started cash down, but their bills had gone up massively.

On the other hand my sister ended up in debt when she was 21 because she thought the world owed her and she just bought ok credit and didn't pay any heed to how much her expenditure exceeded her income. Holidays, clothes, even where she choose to live were all purchased without much regard to the fact she had a low income.

Okay ,

I think the majority of people struggle because rent/house prices (in the South Eat and London) are ridiculous. Childcare is also crippling. I think this means people can barely afford transport, food etc and end up getting into debt over something like school uniforms.

My mum doesn't really think people can get into debt over essentials. She thinks everyone earns (or is supported) enough to be able to cover all essentials and then the debt arises from takeaways and holidays etc.

That's where stand. Ofcourse debt can arise from both but we are 'debating' about the majority and that's what we came to ask. I told her about how Mumsnet has opened my eyes to it so thought I Would start a thread for it instead of spending hours going through old threads.

This is too naive for words. The right answer has to be the 'some' people, obviously.

Are we going to play "Plasma TV" and "Sky" bingo?

Perhaps people get in to debt because they dream of becoming hot shot journalists and instead end up as daily mail click bait generators, trawling the net for manufactured controversy. They drink to forget and that gets expensive after a while.

I can't imagine people actually sitting around discussing judging how people end up without much money.

It must be nice to have lighthearted discussions over this, rather than have to live it.

You both seem incredibly naive.

Northern report if you'd like - I've explained why I started the thread.

Thankyou to those participating

How old is she? What's her housing situation?
Things have changed massively in 20 years as far as housing goes.

This is one of those threads that make me think name changing needs to be tightened up.

I'll bite.

I got into debt because I went from owning my own home outright, having a well paid job and being married to someone who also had a well paid job to him leaving me for an ex (!), being made redundant, having my well serviced boiler explode and having to downsize because I couldn't pay the bills (direct debits etc) on my own for a house the size we lived in. Took 8 months to sell the house, ex disappeared off the face of the earth. I had dd to support. I got a min wage part time job because that was all I could get at the time. And I got into debt surviving. Nothing else I could have done.

Yes, some peoples debt is caused by luxury items but not all debt is. It makes me very angry when people say "if you can't afford it don't buy it" - that doesn't apply when it's a new roof, a grocery shop, essential maintenance to a house you can't afford to run but can't sell, etc. It's not always black and white.

It can be historical. Years ago, when I was pregnant, mortgage interest shot up to 16%. Maternity leave and pay was not what it is now, we really struggled, had to borrow from my mum to buy food and nappies some weeks. At one point we were paying 500 per month on card repay!ents and bank charges, plus mortgage, bills and childcare. It took years to get straight, and we were never extravagant - clothes and toys from boot sales, second hand furniture, holidays camping , and both working. Once you are in debt just financing it, let alone paying it off, is a real problem, can easily spiral out of control.

There are far more reasons than you have put here