To hate the term "tax payers money"

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It is not their money. It has been taken from them. It's now the governments money.

It's been annoying me on a lot of the benefit threads where people get all haughty about how "their tax" is being spent. You don't have a say other than backing a party who's policies in how this money is spent. It always comes across as arrogant to me.

While I'm at it I also dislike the term benefits, it put across a feeling that people in receipt of them are in some way at an advantage to those who don't which IMHO just isn't the case. I think terms such as social security (although not strictly accurate given the current situation with so many) take away that implication that so many people who are fortunate enough to have never needed additional support seem to cling onto.

I've done my tin hand and fully prepared to be told otherwise.

I am also in no way implying that everyone who has never received this additional support have these opinions. Just quite a few on the recent threads.

Yes, but the 'government' is just our representatives so in essence it's still 'our' money. I think my objection is the views of the people saying it, not that one in particular...

I've never thought of it that way, but actually I'm inclined to agree with you after that.

I can see your point Terry but I do disagree because ultimately the general public don't actually have a say in how they spend it so it's their money to use at their own discretion.

It never was our money that was taken from us - that deception is how it works. Income tax is a device that makes those who work (and pay tax) hate those for whom the government is unable to provide employment (so don't pay tax but receive benefits). The latter are victims of a system that requires most to work to survive but which is now so broken it is unable to provide work to many. These people are the victims of our broken system. Instead of blaming the system though, we blame the victims because of income tax that tricks us in to believing that we would be better off if the victims just ceased to exist.

YANBU annoys me when I hear it

Yanbu. Nobody trots out the taxpayers money line if you discuss your gp visits, nhs hospital use, use of state education etc and yet they're all paid for the same.

Tax is taken though. Albeit before it was paid but we are all still taxed.

I do agree that people seem to have an opinion that they would be better off if people in receipt of any form of benefits ceased to exist though.

Would put money on it that it wouldn't be the case. They would spend it elsewhere. Probably on something not nearly as necessary and important as what they currently spend that portion on.

YY to the GPs comment. I know someone who goes to the GP for every sneeze, cough and splutter (slight exaggeration) but never have I heard her say that someone has said she's wasting "the tax payers money". I would doubt she's ever been told that.

Well yes I never feel like the tax was "mine" it comes out of my pay PAYE I never see it I've never had it. My colleagues used to complain about the amount "taken" in tax what they'd do if they had all of it, I always thought that if they reduce it employers will just reduce what they pay. IYSWIM.

I have more sympathy maybe for self-employed people who do "have it" and then hand it over but for PAYE people it's, you've never had a sniff of it.

Not sure if that fits with the original point actually!

But yes I agree the term "tax-payers money" sets up a "them and us" dynamic with "them" (benefits claimants) taking and spending "our" hard earned cash.

Also good point re "benefits" it's a misnomer isn't it. Things like NHS would be better described as benefits maybe.

I totally agree along with the statements I want my tax to pay for or I'm not prepared for my tax to pay for* etc.
Tough, you don't get a say so stop bloody moaning.
This is definitely a new thing as well, even in the darkest moments of Thatcher there weren't comments like this, but now everybody thinks they have a right to say how their tax is spent.

Yanbu although 'government funds' also bothers me because it's the same pot.

In that context YANBU. However for those who work in the public sector it is a good phrase. It reminds us that the money is not ours; it belongs to the people and should be used wisely and carefully.

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with you ...tax is used by all governments to support those in need of any public support or help eg NHS , extra top-ups , state pension etc... And as to the term " benefits" which other term would you prefer?... By any term or re-branding it would still ultimately mean the same wouldn't it? I'm not entirely sure I know what you are really trying to say...do you just not like the words themselves? If different words were used they would, by association, still mean the same thing.

Yes, people who use it are twats to a man

morethan Not a new thing - conference speech in 1983:

The state has no source of money, other than the money people earn themselves. If the state wishes to spend more it can only do so by borrowing your savings, or by taxing you more. And it’s no good thinking that someone else will pay. That someone else is you."
“There is no such thing as public money. There is only taxpayers’ money.”

Tax is not used to support those in need. It is used to protect & maintain the previlege of the elite. It pays for police, armed forces, education, health etc it only ever pays fir those thing which protect (directly or indirectly the status quo)

I don't see the problem with saying 'taxpayers' money' because the money comes from people paying taxes. The cash doesn't come from money fairies, it comes from taxing people who work.

Have to agree with everyone else, I see no problem with this expression, essentially every general election is run on the basis of how the tax income is going to be distributed.

You have to accept both sides of the phrase, some people want value for pound, others want value for other people's pound.

Tax comes from more than those who work though. It seems those who have a job and pay tax seem to think they have more of a say on how the money is spent, compared to someone who is unemployed.

The term annoys me too.

No it doesn't. It comes from those who pretend to pay it to those who think they've earned it. It is actually a payment from the elite to their mates in government to protect them. By pretending to involve 'tax payers', they con ordinary folk into thinking they have a say in it.

I'm sick of it too. Just look at the £98bn paid to corporations and businesses in aid and tax relief. Its a form of benefit, but never discussed. Tax is not a pay in get out system, we all benefit from being a collective. Even the wealthiest, as proved by the figure above, benefit and actually they benefit more from the health, education etc which facilitates them.

Tax Payers money? Bore off

Sorry - I was responding to twowrongs

Carol

I meant it's a new thing of joe public complaining.
I lived through Thatcher and albeit my own little experience showed me people pulling together and rioting together
I didn't hear people complaining about those on benefits or how THEIR tax was going to be spent, even mc people I knew.

My daughter is severely disabled and attends a special school 20 miles away from home. I received a letter off the council regarding her transport to school asking me to bear in mind she was spending tax payers money! the whole letter insinuated we didn't pay tax (well my husband does and we pay full council tax) but even if we didn't, they are vulnerable children, the most complex in our communities, who can't attend their local schools.

I wrote a letter of complaint and the man who wrote it, wrote back to me and apologised (unheard of)