to think that DD needs to stop crapping her pants?

[brdgrl]

Every night. EVERY night.
She's almost 4. She has been toilet trained for a year.
Every night.
I sit her on toilet. She insists she doesn't need to and can't go.
I give up eventually and put her to bed. She promises, again, to call me if she needs the toilet. Time passes. Sometimes I check in every so often, but it is always the same - nope, can't go, I'll tell you when I am ready.

Then....she calls. I go. She has not only had a poo, but has undressed herself and tried to clean it up. I spend next twenty minutes cleaning up poo. Tonight I cleaned poo off the wall, off her, her pjs, her sheets, a dish towel that she'd used to try and wipe herself (ok, that one I just threw in the bin).

She gets rash. That makes her try to hold it.

She is not asleep when this happens; in fact, she can't fall asleep until afterwards.

I try not to be too cross, so as to make her more anxious about it and maybe make things worse - she gets anxious about me being cross - but I want her to know it has to stop.

Have tried a reward chart - this has worked with her for everything else so far - no luck.

Every. single. night.

She completely understands. But she doesn't seem able to stop this habit.

She's withholding. Did she ever have trouble poo-ing? Anal fissure that could be preventing her from going? Has she ever gone in the toilet.

I had a poo with-holder. Dealing with the shitty pants, the chats with nursery and the accidents on play dates was awful and embarrassing.

Have you taken her to the GP to rule out any medical cause? I know she is toilet trained so there could be something else.

You mention she tries to hold it? Apologies I didn't understand the bit about the rash? Again could point to a medical reason.

How long has it been happening? Has she been poorly lately?

I'd start with the GP and go from there.

Hope you get sorted soon

Could you pop her in a pull up at bedtime so she can do her poo, then put her in pants afterwards to go to sleep?

Can you give her a pull up to do it in?
Can you use a baby monitor to hear her and intercept before she tries to clear it up?

We have poo issues here too so I sympathise

Could you stick a potty in her room?

I agree I would put her in a nappy at night until she's been. I would tell her not to try and clean it up herself though!

Yep, withholding - this is an anxiety issue, not really a poo issue.

I'd back right off - put her in pull-ups at bedtime. When she fills it, clean her up, lots of praise and love and kisses (and good night without poo everywhere ).

Once that works well, then let her decide when she can do without the pull-up. Maybe consider a potty in her room for a little while? We did this, on a bathmat, just until various DSs were more confident.

Don't 'try not to be cross'; don't be. Otherwise it will carry on longer tbh.

I have yet to meet a child who likes poking themselves

Lots of x-posts

Oh my, 'pooing', not poking ffs

I had this with DS. He pooed his pants everyday for a year. Yes, you read that right, a year. I tried everything and nothing worked. Then one day it just stopped and he started using the toilet. Almost as if it had never happened. He is 6 now and it is a dim and distant memory. Sometimes I look back and almost laugh, but it's still not been long enough for that yet!
Deep breath, and remember, this to shall pass.

Alternatively I know my SIL has had some success using Movicol with my niece. It means she can't hold it in anymore. The first couple of times though were VERY messy. And you have to keep on using it, don't stop after the first few doses. I think you need to get it from GP too.

Good luck

If she's trying to clean it up herself she's obviously feeling anxious about it, and it's not a willful disobedience.

I agree with the pull up idea, if only to save your own sanity of making it an easier clean up.

On a personal note, I'd probably have to have DH handle this because I don't think I'd have the patience for it. Just take a deep breath. It's probably not fun for her either.

Please take her to the GP. Whether this is withholding, constipation or what you need some help with this.

My child also has this issue. Medication is helping.

You don't have to do this alone. Get some help please!

How difficult for both of you, she must feel awful and it must be difficult to keep a calm face when you face a mess.
Have you tried leaving a potty for her, and botty wipes? And does she get time to sit on the toilet during the day, perhaps with a pile of books to look at? I'm sure you make sure she is eating and drinking well, with fluids and fibre, but ifvyou haven't already done so, do discuss with you gp.

I am confused. Has your daughter ever been clean? Or is she bladder trained but poo trained. Does she poo in the toilet during the day?

How does your daughter feel about night nappies? I realise its frustating, but she is still very young. I think that she is trying to avoid you finding that she has pooed her pjamas if she is attempting to clean herself up. Rather than scolding her for pooing in her clothes it would be better getting her to learn what she should do if she does poo. Prehaps the small mite thought she was helping by undressing and attempting to clean up.

Definitely go to the docs to get some help. My Dd was the same for around a year, tried rewards, got angry etc before I got help. Prescribed lactulose, all sorted within two weeks and never an accident since.

Thanks.

She had a bad spot of with-holding around Christmas-time, She was ill (croup) and just held it in and got very constipated, she didn't go for about four days.

She had really a red and inflamed genital area, back in the autumn, and we took her to the dr several times over that because it wasn't clearing up. Dr gave us some cream and some stuff to add to her bath water, and gradually it did go away.

She hasn't been ill lately, and definitely isn't constipated. She does poo in the toilet during the day, although she doesn't like it and sometimes complains that it is hurting her - the reason it hurts though is that when she has a poo in her pull-up at night, even though she calls me in there within minutes, it gives her a rash. It is definitely a rash caused by the presence of the poo, IYSWIM. Tonight, she had no sign of rash. She used the toilet before bed. Then she calls, I clean her up, and she's got a rash that looks and is painful. So the whole thing is made worse, because then she cries when I have to clean her up. WHich means she tries even harder not to poo, because I think it must be associated now with a stingy bum and a cross mum.

I have he baby monitor...she knows I can hear her on there, so she calls me in after the Event - but not before. If I try to get in there first, she'll just hold out. If I try to make her sit longer on the toilet, she refuses and it seems counter-productive.

I should have said - she wears a pull-up at night. I have wondered if this might be part of the problem, and maybe if I just put her in pants she would not do it?
I might try the potty in her room.

She's not actually toilet trained, if she is still soiling every night. Had exactly the same situation with my eldest. After six months of the GP fobbing me off, telling me that this was normal at the age of 4, I had a total meltdown in the surgery (was 8 month pg which seemed to be the trump card!) and he was seen by a paed consultant. Although he was pooing everyday, he was actually chronically constipated and had effectively lost all sensation in his sphincter muscles. He was put on movicol which improved the situation in a week, in six months he was on a maintenance dose, and off it completely within a year. I have to say though, he is now 8 and I still have to remind him to poo, the consultant did warn me it could take years to resolve completely. Go to your GP, before there is long term damage...either physical or psychological. Movicol transformed my son...I am evangelical about the stuff! Good luck!

Prehaps the small mite thought she was helping by undressing and attempting to clean up.

Oh definitely! Tonight she had her pj bottoms down around her knees, and had found a dishcloth (from her play kitchen) and tried to clean herself with that.
I really do try not to have ago at her when it happens. We talk about how its a problem and how it hurts her and how it makes a mess, and how we really need to solve it, and we hug and she goes back to sleep. She's even helped me try to think of ways to sort it out - like she suggested she could have a Frozen poster if she poo'd in the toilet at night instead of her pants. So we said we'd try that, but she couldn't even go one night.

Mezley, thank you. That's a scary thought - that it might be more serious than I thought - but I will definitely check it out now.

We gave her lactulose at Christmas when she was so constipated. I guess I didn't think she was this time because she is poo-ing, just not where we want her to - I didn't understand that she could be poo-ing and still be constipated.

Do you think she is constipated? You you restrict drinks at bedtime? (Many parents do to avoid wet beds.) Prehaps movical would help.

Sorry, I was cross-posting and missed some of these - thank you all. Getting pretty consistent replies here! Honestly, thank you.

If a child is constipated then there is a massive build up in pressure until the child literally cannot hold it. If they have been constipated long term then they lose the sensation of the splinter muscles.

You could have a look at the ERIC website for advice (or try their helpline) - they are very good (we had wee issues rather than poo so I can't offer advice myself)

I would definitely have the potty in the bedroom and see how that goes for a few nights.