To think 15 year old girls shouldn't do this?

[MrsUptight]

I have name changed but am a regular...ask me anything random and you'll get that.

DH has a dd aged 15...she lives abroad where her Mum was born...when they left, before DH and I met, DH was devastated but has done all he can to remain a constant presence in her life....he didn't stop her moving home as she had mental health issues and needed her own mum...he calls and skypes as well as sending money and presents. He sees her maybe twice a year so gets no real say in anything about the way she lives...her FB page has been closed to DH until today and I see why.

There are loads of pics of his DD in bikinis etc...which is fine but the poses are really overt....there are also pics of her leaning forwards in low cut tops where you can see almost all of her breasts....I mean almost ALL.

this is really upsetting to DH and to me too. Her Mum is commenting on the pics things like "Isn't she gorgeous!" and their friends are liking them etc.

Are we really out of touch or is this the norm for 15 year olds today? Pics of her drinking alcohol too. She's a stunning kid....really, really beautiful and I just feel a bit sad that she's displaying everything in these FHM style poses and young lads are commenting in sexist ways which she seems to lap up of course...aibu to think that they're not appropriate? If I am, I will accept that...I don't know any other kids this age.

Not great. Too young!

Yuck.

Far too young!! Her mum shouldn't be encouraging her either.

I feel like some evil, twisted stepmother type in getting all cat's bum about it but it's not on is it? If that was my DD, I'd make her take them down. They're all over the net now....and I am not exagerrating when I say she's stunning...she's Hollywood gorgeous and those pics will be shared and shared won't they?

No that isn't right.

No YANBU at all , its not normal for a 15 year old at all and her mother should not be encouraging her in that way at all .

If I caught my Dsis (12yo) doing owt like that id skin her alive so god knows what i would do if it was my own child .

Does Dps ex respect his opinion or anything or even his Dd ?

Thank you all. Though I feel sadder now. I thought I might be wrong as I am a bit uptight in general.

Not normal for my 15 yr old, or the people she is friendly with on FB, nor nieces and other youngsters I have as my friends, but then I think they all have parents who have regularly spoken to them, not only about putting things on the internet, but also a little self respect about their own bodies.

Crazy no she doesn't respect DH at all. She regularly puts "all men" down right in front of her DD.

I think you might struggle to get get her to see why it is so wrong then unfortunately , wish I could think of something helpful to say

I know. I feel like DH has no power sadly and of course I wouldn't be listened to. Her Mum has buggered that area up royally. She could be a model or an actor with her looks and she's bright too....I hope this is a phase.

It could be a phase. My DD did similar between 13 1/2-15, she is beautiful, Angelina Jolie type.

She enjoyed the power her looks gave her, she suffered on the death if my DH through Cancer.

She dressed quite tarty, at times. I just went down the route of raising her self confidence/esteem etc, she rejected counselling.

She settled down, she did under achieve, in some ways, but she is on a Career path at 18.

She wasn't promiscuous, although she appeared to be.

The area that I live in has a high teen pregnancy rate and it is interesting that you can never predict the route that young people will follow (my eldest is 28).

I would ignore that "she could be an actor" and given she has had some MH problems find a more positive direction (my DD Teen modelled, but decided that it wasn't for her), that focuses on her attributes other than her appearance.

I don't like it but half of the girls that sort of age that my dd have on fb are exactly the same to the extent that one girl was showing off new knickers at the weekend and another needs telling that if you want to show off your new slippers they need to be in the picture rather than a shot of your cleavage. I will point out that I'm only aware of these because my dd were laughing about them because they find it tasteless and tarty

I think there are two separate issues here.

If your DH hasn't been supporting her financially in a structured, organised way so that 50% of the costs of raising her have been met by him- and he only sees her twice a year, I don't think it's his place or yours to comment on the way she uses Facebook. I'd also keep a more open mind about his ex-wife's behaviour because the bitterness you describe might not be without foundation. Perhaps he treated her very badly and as you weren't around when they were married, you are only privy to his version of events? There are two sides to every story and IME, women don't become 'manhaters' without having experienced some very bad treatment in the past.

As regards the more general issue of 15 year-olds posting these sorts of pictures online, I'm with you totally. It's inappropriate and unwise. But I do think she's responding to the society and era in which she's been raised, which prizes conventional female beauty and sex appeal to men above other attributes. This is probably normative behaviour for her and at 15, she's got a lot to learn about the politics of this.

Where the two might come together is if your DH starts seeing her more regularly, or invites her to visit you now she's older- and starts providing a counter-culture, getting her to think about the politics of this and how following the herd and 'fitting in' with societal norms isn't cool or clever. He'd have to do this quite subtly and if you are to play any part in her life, your own feminist influence (assuming you are one!) might be enormously valuable to a young girl struggling with societal norms.

Leavenheath - well said.

Leaven....he HAS paid his share and more. Your comments are very presumptious...

In my experience, unless a person has actually raised a child for 15 years and has first-hand and daily knowledge of the costs involved in doing so, it's just impossible to say whether an amount given is a 'fair share' of the sum involved.

But that was just one of the issues I raised. The main part of my post was to suggest you think about this issue from a different perspective and to offer some advice about handling the situation more effectively and less judgementally. I didn't read your OP and subsequent posts as just an opportunity to froth about 'young girls today and how do their mothers allow it?' but perhaps I was wrong.

As you were then.

Leaven so what your saying is if a parent does not pay 50% of what ever it costs to raise a child then they have no rights to the child

And this is the second time I have said this on MN this week .
Why is it always the bloke that is presumed to have been a terrible husband/partner after a couple split ?
Women can be violent etc as well .

Op you seem like a lovely lady that is just trying to find a way to help her Dh

It is "the norm" in a particular type of girl... girls like your DSD who is attractive and still in high school thinking looks are all that matters and honestly, there's not much you can do about it, especially not from afar.

As you suspected you (and your DH) will be considered uptight and out-of-touch. You may even be told you don't see her enough to make decisions or assumptions about her life if you try and talk to DM about it.

All either of you can really do is talk more about her achievements than her looks. Commenting that she looks nice (when she's dressed more appropriately but not actually saying it's more appropriate). If she asks whether you like X outfit and it's NOT appropriate, you could try saying, "I'd prefer you show less X but it' a cute colour/pattern and you're the one who has to be seen around wearing it", which tells her your opinion without making her conform (or you could try this: www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/12/scott-mackintosh-dad-short-shorts_n_3912940.html :P

Girls are fickle things, I know, I used to be one :P Now I'm an adult I'm glad such pics of me don't exist on the internet. Could be worse, could be MUCH worse.

Try and focus on her being happy and healthy and just hope for the best.

Encouraging a 15 year old girl to behave in a sexual way is called grooming.

I think her Mum needs a bit of educating about exactly what she is doing here.

Parents have no rights to children whatsoever, regardless of what they've paid out. Parents just have responsibilities; it's children who have rights to parenting. That's the law and I agree with it. As I agree that both parents have the responsibility to raise a child and share the costs as evenly as possible, proportionate to their income and ability to earn money.

I don't think anyone is assuming that where there is acrimony between a separated or divorced couple, it is the man by default who was the 'terrible partner'. But it is worth keeping an open mind about why a woman has no respect for her former partner and 'puts all men down' because often that comes from a place of hurt and as a result of poor treatment. Also, apart from the two people involved, no-one knows what went on in a marriage and both parties will have their own 'truths' which are open to their own interpretations and sometimes get distorted further by new partners.

FWIW, I think the mother's encouragement of these pictures is disgraceful and as the primary carer, she should be acting far more responsibly towards her daughter. But I also think twice a year is too infrequent for a child to see a parent and that now the girl is older and will soon be able to travel alone, the visits need to be increased on both sides so that her father and his partner can provide a better influence.

Leavenheath is wrong. Couldn't be more wrong in fact.
Displaying sexually suggestive images of children is a criminal offence in ever EU country as it is in the US (where FaceBook is hosted).

To the OP:

Forget and ignore ALL the nonsense you've heard so far about "rights over children" and BlahBlahBlah - you clearly want to get something DONE - and you can...

I've worked for FaceBook so I can give you the inside track and you're in luck.
Easy answer - cost you fifty quid (or nothing if you meet a decent woman with a legal practicing certificate).

Find a local solicitor. Have him/her write to / or email FaceBook central making clear that you are the natural parent of the child and that you find the displayed images of your child "distasteful and suggestive".

Trust me, the pictures will vanish within SECONDS of the letter / email arriving, the account will be (probably suspended) and/or be monitored for three years and all email addresses associated with it will be flagged for child pornography issues (many international agencies are involved in this).

This I know. I worked there. They take it REALLY seriously.

Don't hesitate to do it - but don't try to do it on your own - you WILL NEED a lawyer to make it happen. If you get one, it will all happen VERY quickly.

Blah Blah Bleet about what anyone else says - if you don't want naughty pictures of your 15 year old on the internet get a lawyer and have it quickly sorted.

That's very useful information, but I am absolutely not wrong when I tell you that what you describe is a responsibility to a child and not a right. Parents have responsibilities, not rights.

The OP herself is not the parent of the child, her partner is.

And although I completely agree and have said so consistently that these pictures are wrong, I'm not convinced that using this sledgehammer approach to images of a girl who is dressed and posing like many other girls her age- leading to the loss of her Facebook account, would be the best way of retaining a paternal relationship and influence on her life.

No No Nannette...

I do have the right to have my children displayed to the world in such a way as I dictate as long as they are children.

I also have an absolute right to say "NO" when considering the way other people might want to present or display my children to the world.

And I certainly have a right to judge, modify, oversee and monitor the way they present themselves to the world.

If none of this were true, how would I qualify for the label "parent" ?

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