Alcoholic sister, what is best for her child?

[Peal4]

My sister is an alcoholic. She lost custody of her child who is now 6 a couple of years ago. Her ex has him full time.

My parents seem to think it's best to let her son see her when she's having a sober spell. These are supervised visits at my parent's house. These visits don't last long before she's back on the drink and the contact is suddenly withdrawn and her son is left wondering where mummy has gone again.

Anyone else been in this position?

I feel that long term, this is going to mess up her son more than not seeing her at all and I was just wondering what other people think?

How much does he know and understand? I hope everyone is being open and honest with him, I'm an age appropriate way. Otherwise he'll think it's something he does.

She is an addict. And addiction almost always wins. It's not that she doesn't love him enough. She is sick.

But not seeing your mum is damaging in other ways. Tough one but honesty is going to be the only way through.

Are they under social services? If so I think they ask the dc regularly and gauge if it’s positive. You sometimes get behaviour issues or the dc will not want to go if they’re not enjoying the contact. But long term it’s considered better to have the contact.

I’m no expert but I believe that studies have shown that having whatever safe contact is possible is usually the best for the child in these types of situations. Your nephew is going to be impacted either way. It’s isn’t really your decision to make. If will be his father’s and social services/courts I expect, hopefully taking into account your nephew’s feelings. Your nephew is unlikely to view your sister as his caregiver and unlikely to have a secure attachment. Hopefully he does have a secure attachment with his Dad. A sad situation. I’m sorry your sister is so ill. I hope you and your parents have been able to have a relationship with your nephew.

Thanks for your replies.
Yes his dad is great with him and my parents see him regularly as do mine and my other sister's kids.

I'm seeing him later at my parent's house so I'll speak to them and make sure they're talking to him to reassure him that it's not his fault.

I've always been of the opinion it's best to cut all contact so it's interesting to hear that studies show that's not the best for the child.

I'm not sure if social services are involved or not. As she lost custody I suppose they assume she's out of the picture.

Presumably the best way to approach it is in the context of 'Mummy is unwell and has a condition which means sometimes she might not be well enough to see you' i.e. not your fault. She's doing everything she can to get better and spend time with you etc.

I'm not an expert, but references I've seen to this situation suggest that seeing more of your children again is a major motivator for people to become/ stay sober?

Thanks @LlamaDrama20.

I actually thought when he was born that would be the incentive to get better but unfortunately she's in exactly the same situation now as she was then.

The general consensus so far seems to be for him to continue contact when she's sober. His dad is fine for her to see him even though she lost custody. He asked his dad if he still has a mummy because he hadn't seen her for so long. It's such a sad situation.
I fear the older he gets and the more aware he is of the situation the harder it will get for him.

Children understand more than we realise, as long as issues are explained in an age appropriate way.

If it’s not happening already, indirect contact could take place. This could be FaceTime, letters and cards. Of course, family would need to check if mummy is sober for contact to happen and the content of any letters or cards.

Good idea @serene12
I'll suggest that today.

I personally think this is probably the wrong approach. I say this as a recovering alcoholic but also someone married to an adult child of alcoholics. I think children benefit from having a relationship with their parents as long as they are safe even if their parents aren’t sober. Dh’s bond with his dad was strong and actually it was important to have him in his life, even when he was doing everything right, as long as he was safe.

A parent showing up drunk and belligerent to contact sessions, no, not safe. But a parent who drank at the weekend who is not drunk, is coherent, engaged, yes, it’s probably best for the child to not have that person pushed and pulled out of their life. Contact isn’t a reward or punishment for sobriety or a control tactic, it’s about what’s best for the child and should aim to optimise stability in their life. I think a child wondering if they still have a mummy because the other parent is blocking contact is clearly causing harm. What you need to gauge is if that harm is greater or less than would be caused by seeing his mum.

Research only tells you what's best at a population level, not the individual. I would have been better off without the sporadic unreliable disappeared in between contact.

it probably depends on how the contact is managed. if at the contact, the child's mum is OTT with 'I love you I'm going to stay with you forever' and then promptly vanishes again, that is probably going to be pretty confusing for the child.

if the child knows that mum is unwell and the illness comes and goes, and it is not his fault but he can visit with mum sometimes, and the visits are calm and easy, then it sounds like it could be helpful.

DD (adopted) had ongoing direct contact with her birth mum. Sadly birth mum died young, connected with her substance abuse.

It was a huge benefit to DD that she could see her birth mum when sober for brief periods (a couple of hours, supervised). There was no reason why she couldn't, I gave her the security and stability, and she understood her birth mum was unwell and that's why she was adopted. Birth mum supported the adoption because she wanted her/our daughter to be looked after and loved.

It was occasional, in the school holidays, so not regular enough to feel let down if it didn't happen. I was quite open about her first mum.not being well.

It depends how it is handled. But children are capable of understanding a lot if they have a secure base. Yes, it will be painful at times, but it will be painful if they don't see her. Support them through that.

Give them the choice as well. From quite a young age.

Maybe DD would have chosen to break contact, maybe she wouldn't, her birth mum died when she was 8.

Assuming the mum recognises why their involvement is limited, and doesn't try to emotionally blackmail

Your parents are wrong. It's really hard - extremely upsetting and extremely damaging - for a child to experience an on again off again parent.

A child experiences this as repeated rejection and abandonment. They can internalize this and believe its their fault the parent is no longer available, with seriously negative effects far into adulthood.

If you think you could talk sense into your parents, please do.

There is nothing amiss with fostering a solid relationship with the grandparents, but exposing the child to a fundamentally unavailable and unreliable mother is not ok.

Thanks for your reply @mindutopia

He really does enjoy seeing his mum but they know how unreliable she is so they never tell him in advance in case she cancels and then he's left disappointed.

My dad won't have her in his house if she's drunk. Tbh, I'm surprised my dad's not had a stroke either the stress of dealing with it all.

They're all really trying hard to do what's best for him but it's so difficult. I suppose as he gets older he will be able to decide himself whether he wants contact with her, but that won't be for a while.

Was her birth mum an alcoholic?
Was she drunk when she saw her daughter?

Thanks for your reply @mathanxiety. I'm wondering if the people that are against on/off contact have had first hand experience of this themselves.
The opinions are very mixed so far. I'll let my parents have a look. I think they worry they're doing the wrong thing.

Yes, her birth mum.was an alcoholic. No, she didn't turn up drunk to contact, and if she had it wouldn't have taken place. It was timed at mid morning to make it easier for her to engage, have recovered as much as possible from the previous day and not started drinking that day.

Some of DDs difficulties are probably due to foetal alcohol exposure, but picking apart what is alcohol exposure and what is due to chaotic and neglectful parenting once born is impossible (and fairly pointless)

Are you in the UK? If so under what order do your parents have the child? Eg is it an Special Guardianship Order or a child arrangement order? If SGO they are still eligible for support from the local authority? I would suggest he is getting to the age where he would benefit from some lifestory work to help him make sense of both living without his mum and the inconsistent family time with her. I'm curious when you say he gets to see her when she is sober, does that mean not drinking at all or sober at the time of the visit? It is normally better for children to have a structure to their family time (unless parent is super reliable) as seeing them and not seeing them can be really confusing and distressing at the time and also what it can do over time to the child's sense of self worth (I'm not worth not drinking for, I'm not worth turning up for etc). Even when she is drinking is she able to not drink before coming to see him, ie could you agree once a month on a morning for a couple of hours - and she is met by grandparents first, if she is not under influence it goes ahead, whether or not she is typically drinking at that point. Or if she can't be consistent with that, maybe reduce it right down to say x amount of times per year. The key is trying to achieve some form of consistency and supporting his understanding in an age appropriate way. I really would if you can draw on some expertise from children social care. I would also have them speak to school to see what support they can offer from a pastoral perspective.

Hi @Notmydaughteryoubitch

Yes in the UK. His dad has full custody and my parents try to see him as much as possible at weekends. They just try to be good grandparents. Rightly or wrongly I think they feel partly responsible as it is their child that has caused all this mess.

I'm not sure if social services are involved at all. I'll need to check.

My parents allow her in the house if she's sober that day. It's unusual for her to go any length of time without a drink. They've got pretty good at telling from the tone of her texts/emails whether she's drunk. More often than not though, if she's drinking then she'll cancel the visit herself.

There's no way there can be any consistency. She sometimes cancels on the day.

What medical care is your sister getting? She needs medical help to remain sober and get back to her life.

If every weekend is a 'maybe' that might be too much.

School holidays worked well for us, so three times a year. And just one of many plans for the holiday, not all of which would happen/be possible, but it would be nice if it did (e.g. it would be nice to go to the beach, but it depends on the weather).

She's had every bit of help possible.

Fully agree with @mathanxiety, how much of your parents supporting contact is doing what they think of as parents is best for their daughter.
I think it's unfair for the child, as the sporadic contact will perpetuate the 'alcohol is more important than her child' view, as sometimes she'll see him, other times she'll choose alcohol as more important therefore evidencing the repeated rejection and abandonment.
She needs to stay away until she can prove she's finished with alcohol and is ready to be a parent.