I just watched the Walliams programme and...

[Headtorch]

I don't think it was that bad?

Maybe with all the hype I expected it to be on the RB scale, but it isn't.

Undoubtedly a sleaze and probably several cases that could be brought for workplace harassment, but as terrible as I expected. Enough that those companies should refuse to employ him though, which they have, now it's come out.

Which I guess shows how low the bar is.

I hope you don't have daughters.

Agreed 💯 The workplace is a start though. Its somewhere women have to be, they have to interact.

I was expecting claims of beastiality or something similar, the way he was threatening suicide if his name was released. I don’t think it was that bad at all, yes very grim dirty old man and obviously the 15 year old is completely wrong, but sending some letters to models at their agency etc 🤷‍♀️

And most people who have illnesses or disabilities never break the law or harm/exploit other people.

@kerstina Both can be true at the same time. Some people with illnesses (including addictions) and disabilities break the law (including murder) or harm/exploit other people. Just like in the general population. Some very dangerous people can also be pitied. It’s perfectly possible to be ‘vulnerable’ yourself and still harm others. May well be the case for most people in prison. Brand had a pretty traumatic childhood. But so did lots of people who’ve never offended. Those who offend or exploit/harm others should expect to be challenged and held to account.

Yeh this was really interesting. They have patterns of NDAs and fear of repercussions

oh well as long as he's only grooming children so he can have "consensual" sex the minute they're 16, and as long as it's only so bad the publishing company stopped sending young women to deal with him, and as long as it isn't as bad as another person, I guess we should just minimise it all.

really op, given your head a wobble and raise your bar.

Typical.

Describing women sharing their experience as 'hysteria' and suggest the man involved has done nothing wrong.

Enough.

Enough of the rape, sexual assault, grooming and workplace sex pests apologists and the sad pick me women who defend these vile men.

or sons. I don't want by boys growing up with this kind of behaviour being excused any more than I want it for my niece's.

Is sexual activity with a minor under 16 not illegal?

It is insane to me that the bar is so fucking low that there are people saying 'it's not that bad, at least he didn't rape anyone' - what the hell?
How is grooming a 15 year old, inviting her to his house and groping her, OK?
We need to start holding men to a much higher standard! 'At least it wasn't rape' is pretty fucked up.

I find a this all extremely uncomfortable. When did we reach the point that allegations are reported as fact. I do not doubt that he probably is guilty but the place for that is a court room following a comprehensive investigation by police officers presenting the facts supported by evidence and witness testimony to a judge and jury.

When we allow allegations to be treated as fact with no evidential test it’s a slippery slope to vigilante justice. Which would be a pretty horrific. Investigative journalism is incredibly important for shining a light on, especially when the person concerned is prepared to try and manipulate the law to protect him from justice. However , now is the time to hand it over. It doesn’t deserve to be headline news. It is, a the moment, allegations and the principal of innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental rule that we should all remember.

If it wasn't that bad, why was he forcing young women to sign NDAs? Why was he threatening to kill himself if the media published the allegations? He must know, deep down, that what he was doing was wrong.

Also on Newsnight last night was a young man who had permission to speak on behalf of a victim. He said this wasn’t new, and that they’d been going in cycles of trying to bring it to light for “years” and were met with injunctions every time. Imagine our legal system being in lockstep with abusers of power.

THIS is why it’s THAT BAD. Because it’s power Vs the vulnerable, and it’s men against young and vulnerable women. Those men have been able to use our legal system to silence those women until now. It is that bad, and it must change. A man that would touch and abuse my 15 year old would find out exactly how bad it is. Enablers and rape and abuse apologists can get in the same bin as Walliams. Although you’re probably too old for him!

@startthedaywithkindnesd these investigations have been built up over years with solid legal advice.

Many of the reports are of behaviour that wouldn’t constitute a crime. The police would not be able to take any action.

Definitely. No wonder Walliams tried to get his name suppressed. Everyone thinking that was a marker of guilt but it’s just to stop everyone taking everything they have heard in the media as fact and closing the case having only heard one side of the story.

So because the 16 and 17 year olds that a middle aged man was pressuring for sex, only had him stick his tongue down their throats, but didn’t go as far as to r*pe them, just held the pressure until they consented… it’s “not that bad”.

Wow. How low is that bar? Just because it was less overtly violent than the sounds of RB’s offences doesn’t mean it’s not abusive.

His repeated grooming behaviour is illegal today.

Perhaps we should focus on making sure teenagers can speak up about this stuff in future, and men will think twice about doing it, which means exposing this to the full glare of publicity now.

A point well made!

Exactly! People always gloss over that these men come from mothers and fathers themselves. As a mother of sons it is my duty to make extremely clear to my boys what is right and wrong and what is absolutely disgusting and abusive. If one of mine ever treated a girl in the way DW or RB have, I’d castrate them myself and they bloody know it. Difference is, they’ve been taught not to be abusive creeps their whole life, and are disgusted by the current news. We can’t just teach girls to be fearful and strong around men, we need to teach men from childhood not to abuse.

His statements don’t deny that fact that he was having sex with 16 and 17 year olds as a middle aged man. He’s denying small details about certain things, but he’s acknowledged that sex occurred.

Under the sexual offences act 2003 grooming is a criminal offence - it’s reprehensible to minimise his actions and appalling behaviour.

It is a fact that two organisations who have massive amounts of money to lose by it have removed his work from their businesses.

One of them banned their own female staff from meeting him alone or ever meeting him at his house.

That's enough fact for me.

A man that would touch and abuse my 15 year old would find out exactly how bad it is

What, exactly, would you do? Are you suggesting that the parents of these girls are inferior to you in how they acted? What about the people who knew but did nothing? And don’t forget that includes a LOT of people, including women.

I have just watched the documentary. From the accounts given by the victims, he was
clearly using his celebrity to access young girls. He was very careful not to cross the legal line, however he groomed and prepared them so he could swoop in and take advantage as soon as they were legal. He clearly knew what he was doing was wrong as did the people around him.

Some people genuinely don't see adults grooming teenagers as being "that bad".

At my school in the 1990s there were quite a few girls who were 13-15 who had 'boyfriends' in their mid-20s - 30s. I thought it was weird at the time, but people didn't give a shit. They passed comments on the children for being promiscuous sluts, even (or especially) when they got pregnant, not on the fully grown, adult men doing the impregnating.

I was talking about this with one of my old school friends, when I mentioned about the one girl being pressured into filmed threesome with her 25 year old boyfriend when she was 14. My mate weirdly defended him, saying, "No, he wouldn't do that, he was lovely! Her family loved him!"

I pointed out that lovely 25 year olds don't have sexual relationships with children, and how would she feel if her 24 year old daughter came home with a boy younger than her youngest brother? She looked revolted, and conceded her own perspective on relationships was messed up (she moved out of home aged 15 to move in with a 28 year old man - I think she blames herself, rather than her mother who allowed it, or the man himself).

It doesn't matter if a teenager is absolutely throwing herself on an adult - it's the adult's job to say, "You're too young, this isn't happening".

Adults actively pursuing teenagers is grim and dodgy as fuck.