I just watched the Walliams programme and...

[Headtorch]

I don't think it was that bad?

Maybe with all the hype I expected it to be on the RB scale, but it isn't.

Undoubtedly a sleaze and probably several cases that could be brought for workplace harassment, but as terrible as I expected. Enough that those companies should refuse to employ him though, which they have, now it's come out.

Which I guess shows how low the bar is.

Completely fair, and I definitely agree with this. I feel the documentary painted him overall as a man who had a pattern of deliberately waiting until girls were 'just legal', which is disgusting and creepy. I might be wrong, but I suspect in the case of that 15 year old he'll either deny sexual contact at that time or say he believed her to be 16. Doesn't make it any less CSA, but I can already see how this is going to be downplayed and portrayed as a man who liked "younger women" but wouldn't knowingly do anything too soon 🤮

He obviously used his fame and wealth to groom very young women - maybe not illegal but certainly repulsive and morally reprehensible. It's hard to believe that the people around him had no idea this was going on!

The physical assault on a 15 year old was clearly illegal as was persuading her to send naked/underwear pictures.

t I suspect in the case of that 15 year old he'll either deny sexual contact at that time or say he believed her to be 16.

He has denied this one.

ETA from the Guardian article

She says he then lifted up her T-shirt, pulled down her bra and sucked her breast. He took her hand and started to put it down his trousers. She says she* *was aware that he had an erection and she pulled away. “I wasn’t ready for sex. I didn’t want to do that with him or with anyone. I was very uncomfortable with my own body as well. And I didn’t – I didn’t want to be touched in that way at all. I mean, I was only a 15-year-old.”

Walliams agreed to stop. She recalls him saying “that we should wait until I’m 16 and then said to keep in contact … I remember him saying that. That comment will always stick out in my mind. That’s a very strange thing to say.”

Lawyers for Walliams say he never engaged in grooming young women, and he denies that he had any sexual contact with Jade. They say the allegations of serious criminal conduct are false.

Sorry, clumsy phrasing on my part. I agree it's completely indecent behaviour. I guess I meant someone to whom it was important to not do something outright illegal would have checked. I find myself thinking of all the threads on Mumsnet I've read over the years about big age gap relationships and people tend to fall into the eww it's disgusting and creepy camp (which I'm in) and others who say love is love. That's why I think lots of people will see Walliams as a dirty old man vs dangerous.

Anyone who has a different opinion to me is damaged and needs reeducation until they agree with the way I see things.

I feel sorry for the poor loves who don’t have the superior correctness I do.

I read the Guardian article, and watched the documentary with increasing horror. That's the reaction I would expect to see from anyone reading/watching. He was/is a sleazy man who clearly used his fame to groom young girls for sex. That is very serious, and I suspect may just be the tip of a large iceberg.

Absolutely. I have so many memories of feeling nervous, afraid, coerced, touched against my consent. I think it’s good we are shining a light on this. It goes back to Freud over 100 years ago starting to name CSA as the cause of hysteria in women but shut down by the rich and powerful men that paid him and ever since society has continued to brush it under the carpet, shame victims, pathologies normal responses to CSA as if there is something wrong with the victim. The Royal College of Psychiatry have finally accepted and apologised for their role in that. It’s tip of the iceberg stuff though. We need a wholesale shift and I am sorry to say it, but we need men, if they won’t mobilise to call out the predators among them, to feel afraid of false allegations enough that they start to self regulate.

And it’s not just celebrity power. Men have more power in many situations and are mostly physically stronger. Very easy to set off someone’s fight flight freeze if you are bigger and stronger.

He sounds dreadful whichever way I look at it.

I actually think it was awful, he blatantly groomed young and vulnerable women. But if you watched the woman explaining that she told his she had suffered sexual abuse and didnt want to be touched that way, yet he sucked her breasts and tried to get her to touch his erection when she was 15, and didnt think it was 'that bad' then you probably need to do some self reflection

I can’t believe he got away with that. I hope the victims prosecute him now.

That’s a you problem OP.

I can only hope I have broken the cycle with this.

I have spoken about red flags, that older people have no buisness being interested in younger people and inappropriate sexual behaviour and pressure with both dd and ds.

My mother and eldest sister (she was 17 years older than me) set me up on dates and encouraged me to get into a relationship with a man in his 20's. I thought I was in a loving family, but to this day I have no idea why they wanted to push it, and have never had any answers. I can only assume they were worried about me becoming 'wild' if I didn't settle down early like they did.

I was 14 when it started. He used to pick me up from school while I was wearing school uniform. I was abused by that man for three years until I got too old for him.

Dd is the same age now, and it makes me sick with rage when I think back on it.

I am determined to do better.

It's not as bad as Brand so far. I don't think he will definitely serve time, even though some of the behaviour described in the newspaper article is criminal, because of the burden of proof. It is very bad though.

And also the fourth ‘f’ which is fawning. This is often overlooked, but faced with a dangerous situation many women and girls will try to placate and please the aggressor/abuser to try and survive and get out of the situation safely. This is especially relevant when the abuser is a famous and powerful man that they would be afraid of upsetting.

I am so sorry. You deserved better and what a fab mother to be actively seeking to change that pattern.

What about his ex wife ? Did he groom her .She was very young looking wasnt she . I was listening to the case on you tube last night . I did think he comes across as a sad old man really . Someone to be pitied rather than scared of. The girls involved mainly seemed to have the sense to avoid him. They are the ones with the power, they are young beautiful girls and we should educate our daughters to realise that.
looking back at my own youth I had some bad experiences ( haven’t we all ?) not assaulted by older men but peers. So I don’t think it is always about age it is something in a person that is abusive or not. I avoided them . Publicly crucifying men who have bipolar , ADHD , anxiety and depression or whatever doesn’t sit well with me. I guess what I am trying to say is that David Williams does seem vulnerable to me for all his money and so called power. I say this as someone older and I know lots of people who are going to criticise my thoughts but just realise we are all allowed to try and think for ourselves, form our own opinion rather than jumping on the next witch hunt bandwagon.

Yes! Totally forgot to mention that. It’s not a physiological reaction like the other three but an ingrained reflex. And not just around unwanted sexual advances either.

I think it may ‘not seem that bad’ because poor behaviour and sexual harassment has been normalised for years.

. I did think he comes across as a sad old man really . Someone to be pitied rather than scared of.

This is retcon. Even before the injunction was lifted, he was dropped by his publisher etc and he’s now in his 50s and has been in an MH institution for his own safety. Of course he cuts a pitiable figure now, to some.

At the time of his offences, he was very famous, had won lots of awards, was in his 30s and was fit and strong (channel swim and other sport relief work). He wasn’t a sad old man. He was a powerful predator.

ETA, Jade, the 15 year old who has reported that he kissed her mouth and breasts, had told him she was 15 and had also told him
that she had been sexually abused earlier in her childhood. In what way did she have the power vs him?!?!

I was also pretty disturbed by the Superhero costume he wore to a children's event, where he with has an extraordinarily large package that he should have tucked away better, or he had deliberately padded out his groin as if he was wearing a codpiece. I think it was the latter.

Picture below isn't even the event or the costume I'm talking about, the other was much looser, so it was clearly a pattern with him. There are also pictures of him appearing to be semi erect in a looser costume.

https://x.com/puremaureen/status/2117981302095794252

I have to confess, when I first saw the programme my instinctive response was 'is that all?'. But actually doesn't this just show how normalised this sort predatory of behaviour is? As pp have said, he was knowingly making contact with minors and clearly grooming them and asking them to send indecent images. Even those who were not technically children were very young. He must have known they felt they could trust him because of his fame and he abused that. Unfortunately I have a fear that there will be more women and girls that have not come forward yet. Several of the women on the program talk of him attempting to persuade them to go to be with him/have sex with him when they were children or very young adults. How many did not feel able to say no? How many other young women did he encourage to go to stay with him that didn't take a friend for support and ended up in his bed? How many have been threatened with legal action if they speak out, or perhaps even been paid off? It seems pretty clear none of this was a one-off.
I think my initial reaction that he was clearly a creep but it could have been worse speaks volumes about what women and girls are expected to put up with. It seems pretty clear that at the time of these events lots of people around him knew what was happening but probably either felt there was no point complaining, felt their own jobs would be threated if they did, or just brushed it all off as a bit of a joke.
It really is time we held men accountable every time.

“I guess what I am trying to say is that David Williams does seem vulnerable to me for all his money and so called power.”

What the actual fuck did I just read? Are you taking the piss? This is precisely how this kind of cretin gets away with it. Fucking hell.

I thought it was bad. Impressionable teenage girls, all of whom were either very young or very young looking.
I hope the documentary, and the publicity around it, is useful in helping to establish a 'new normal' whereupon men treat women in the workplace, and women they meet through work, as they are - colleagues. Approach them exactly as they do male colleagues, and not as 'just' potential conquests.

If you watch the Lucy Beaumont interview linked above, she talks about one young woman she is aware of who had signed an NDA and was not supposed to talk to friends or a therapist under that. Lucy tried to help her but the young woman was scared to breach the NDA.

It may be that there are others who have been too scared to talk to anyone under similar documents