Headteachers use open days to dissuade 'undesirable' families.

[Diamondsgreen]

I've worked in schools for a long time. The challenging schools used open evening to try and persuade families they wanted their DC to attend - empty places cost money and add even more challenge to the school.

However, in every one of the "good", oversubscribed schools the HT used them to put off families they didn't like the look/feel of.

E.g. in a small infant school the HT insisted on doing all the tours herself. Then at any mention of SEND would be most unethusiastic about how the school might be able to meet the child's needs, even suggesting other schools locally who might be better placed to do it.

A Grammar school made a big deal of all the expensive trips and extra curricular activities, you may think to show depth in their offer, but the strategy was to put off less afuulent families.

The one doing the rounds currently is behaviour. The school's (often Trust's) behaviour policy is designed to create a positive learning environment, but the school won't suit pupils or families who will challenge that....

Sensible management or wholly unethical?

@DryadsRest Getting good GCSE grades is an important for most young people’s futures. It opens doors for future employment and/or study, which then leads to employment. Encouraging children to not care about doing well in their GCSEs would be silly and doing them a disservice.

Problem is that teen school refusal is also escalating. To very high levels.
Too much pressure to behave and perform. DC at age 11 stressed about school.

Pressure to behave? Being silent or quiet when need be (ie when the teacher is talking) is not difficult and not something to be afraid of. Good grief.

Quite possibly you are correct, however, I think employers will start to use their own bespoke tests to look for what they want and GCSE passes and degrees may prove less important than they do now, particularly as so many people are degree educated now.

Sometimes it is. Nobody has said always. Certain conditions do lead to issues with behaving as pupils need to in a classroom.

It is surprisingly difficult to listen and concentrate when the information you are being given is of no interest to you.

That doesn’t make it acceptable to shout out and derail a lesson 🙄If anything why not just daydream or stare out of a window.

No one will feel good about schools rejecting their children for not being the type of child they want. Though I guess selectively academic schools are on reality saying children aren't smart enough to go to their schools and everyone seems okay with that. Plus I guess some schools will try to put off parents/kids that "don't fit" for whatever reason...not enough money, don't think they are smart enough etc.

I understand Schools have limited funding and staff to help kids but I can certainly understand parents not feeling great their child was rejected

@onedayillmoveon I used to think the similarly to you I used to think it was basic politeness not to disrupt lessons. I thought it was the bare minimum of good behaviour.

But now I wonder what the point is of sitting through years of lessons in subjects that are of no interest. If a child’s strength is in active things why not facilitate that and reduce down the academic quiet content of their education?

with selective schools it is more open and processes likely more transparent

The closest state secondary school to me made a big thing about sports. Nothing wrong with that, but the annual cost of the PE uniform was £1k+!🤯

It was very effective for putting off the parents their inner city, catchment area.😕

It’s a difficult one. We’ve experienced the opposite too. A primary school that said they had SEND provision but they didn’t. They were making sure their classes were filled up but a few parents with SEND children had to constantly demand the school for the additional support they were promised.

If they don’t have the resources, I can see why. I have found all schools want certain pupils anyway. Some want only local, some religious based - but they shouldn’t comment negatively.

And yet generations of us have managed it with no ill effects and have found educational
success anyway.

Sometimes work is boring too. It is up to good parents and teachers to help
children understand that while no everything they learn is exciting and stimulating for everyone in a class all at the same time, it still has value and the potential to become more interesting with an open mind and the ability to engage regardless of how interesting it initially appears.

No school wants difficult children surely .

But that is disruptive. Not to suggest your child shouldn't be in the classroom, of course they should. But multiply that by 5, because they wont be the only child who "only needs xyz". Written instructions take time, waking up daydreamers takes time. Teachers can only spread themselves so thin, before the whole class starts to suffer.

All state schools are short of time, money and resources. Why do some head teachers think they should not have to meet the needs of children with SEN? In a world where it is increasingly difficult to get a place at a specialist school, many families have no choice but to send their child to a mainstream school. Forcing a child to have to travel further and be educated outside of their local community seems cruel.

Written instructions can be prepared in advance, put on the interactive white board and help all students. They can then be reused year after year.

The occasional prod to get on with work is probably less disruptive than the child with no send but academically less able, who needs repeated explanations.

The lack of generosity towards send children here is remarkable and we have been extremely fortunate that this hasn't been our experience of actual teachers.

I've been a teacher and had a range of pupils with send. I didn't see teaching pupils with send problematic, it was just a facet of my job. You don't just teach the material, you teach the individuals in that classroom.

The whingy parents who object to their child sharing a classroom with children with send really need to recognise that it so easily could have been them and their child.

Every mainstream school is going to struggle with children with challenging behaviour.

parents who want the best environment for their children are not "whingy".

If you were a genuine teacher, you would acknowledge that you are already over-worked and drowning under over-expectations and limited resources, not breathily pretend that you just add to your workload easily and that it's so realistic to "reuse instructions year after year".

Schools are much less demanding that they used to be. It's not pressure the problem, is that the number of parents happy to have "school refusers" and to keep them home is escalating.

You find support groups, and "homeschooling" communities absolutely everywhere, that was not as widespread before.

"homeschooling" is not regulated, maybe it should be.

State schools don’t meet the needs of every child. Too many people seem to think that they do. I made this point on another thread recently and another poster popped up to inform me that I was wrong and that state schools do meet the needs of every child, I just might not get my first choice of school. If only it were that easy.

To complicate matters further, provision of special schools is often scarce and unsuitable. Even when a place at suitable specialist provision is found, it can be incredibly hard to convince the LA to fund it.

I can’t see how Labour forcing more disabled children into state schools can possibly work for anyone.

This happens everywhere

Same with 'send us a video of you' recruitment tools

Vile.

We used to have the local schools sending Sen parents to come to us ‘because we’re better equipped for SEN’. Really wound me up - we weren’t better equipped, we were just a nicer school who weren’t trying to bat the SEN kids elsewhere.

I didn't actually do anything "breathily" but thanks for that.

I was a teacher, I taught science. The instructions for experiments don't really change from year to year. I would typically have a lesson plan with key things like instructions in it. No biggie to the display those instructions.

If you aren't reusing things from year to year (I appreciate that primary teachers switch year group sometimes), sharing resources between teachers and looking for other ways not to "drown". If you so much resent the adaptations you make for children like mine. Maybe teaching isn't for you.

I'm fortunate that my child's teachers have said that it's no bother to adapt slightly for her. They genuinely seem to value having her in the class. I'm glad they've never expressed your attitude towards her.

How can you speak about all schools or even assume that that poster is referring to uniform or a pupil speaking at the same time the teacher is? My DC will wear the uniform, doesn’t wear jewellery anyway and I’ll support school if he speaks when the teacher is speaking.

@MotherOfCrocodiles I’m in the same position, where the headteacher said similar, whilst highlighting the large amount of complaints about sanctions. Does the school you saw begin with an M?