Is ending the triple lock to fund a care service fair....

[mids2019]

To me this is actually not a hugely left wing proposal as middle classes with occupational and private pensions will not notice the reduced increases in state pension significantly.

However poorer pensioners with little other pension provision may be impacted a lot to essentially fund a care service that will be disprotioanrly help the middle classes as their life expectancy is greater.

Is it fair that our poorest pensioners get less to support a care service which would mean a millionaire pensioner would not nèed to sell their assets to access it?

Yes I'm sorry I meant that anyone could apply for those places.

It's not done much good making so many more places available. It's reduced graduate entry jobs to the level that used to be A level entry jobs, and the salaries with it.

Define ordinary?
Trades?
Professionals?
Folk ten rungs up the ladder.

I’ve only ever ( briefly )met two people who went to private school , but as I was brought up on a council estate I was never going to run into any as a child and never did at work either!

It's because of all the posts on here and other fora from older people bemoaning the young, so the "young" are quite right to push back against it.

I haven't got a clue why you are accusing me of blaming the young.

It's complete nonsense to suggest that having three children at private school was in any shape or form a normal occurrence in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/whenever we are talking about.
I've become accustomed to the guff about living comfortably on one salary (despite living comfortably when I was a kid was completely different to what people feel entitled to today) but this is a new wild claim on me.

My brother went to private school - father worked in a shop and mother was a secretary - that's pretty "normal".

One of my clients, a plasterer, sent his son to a private school.

In both cases it was because the child was being bullied in mainstream and also getting in with the "wrong" crowd, not doing homework, truanting, etc. In both cases, the private school "solved" the problem, and both ended up with good O and A levels.

Not all private schools are Eton! In our run down region, the private school wasn't "elite" at all - it was affordable to normal people if parents sacrificed some luxuries.

Why is there a state pension? What is a good argument that the state pension should be greater than zero? Pensioners have had all their lives to save and invest. Old age is incredibly predictable and foreseeable. If someone does not prepare for old age, why is it everyone else's problem?

A plasterer. I am assuming you mean he ran his own form and employed people.
Hat did your father do in this shop? Manager? Accountant? Was mother really a pa, often called a secretary years ago to a high ranking manager?
They could not have afforded private school in an ordinary shop workers and secretaries wages.

For three sets of fees though? My son went to private school in the late 90s-early 00s. The fees - think - were around £10,000 a year. How many 'ordinary, normal' families can afford to pay £30,000 on top of all other household expenses on one way, unless it it a VERY good wage?
By the time my next two were born (11 years later) they went to state as I could not afford fees x 2

Not only that - but most significant size independent schools offer full bursaries too. Many kids at our school are on some form of bursary. Many of them full bursaries. The 2 things necessary - brains, and low family income.

My dh had his degree funded by his employer 30 odd years ago . I bet that doesn’t happen much these days. The only ads I’ve heard for employers who want to enhance their employees careers has been with Amazon and I doubt they are wonderful employers ( but no idea , only what I’ve seen on their ads)
Employers want people out of university with degrees all done and funded themselves . It’s not the young’s fault that many places are like this is it and only want the most qualified at a huge expense to themselves.
Maybe this trend will change , but employers won’t be picking up the debts.

How very humane of you!

A lot are sponsoring Apprentices now. They miss the uni experience but have a job and no debt.

History not your strong point?

Come on. The conditions under which the state pension was introduced are not similar to the conditions today. This is not a good argument.

I agree with this to a certain extent , also if you go into a care home and you don’t have a house to sell or any savings ,, it’s free whilst other more prudent people have to self fund , something needs to change

So no then

Today's pensioners enjoyed unprecedented levels of economic stability and prosperity over their lifetimes. They have avoided all major wars and seen improvements in spending power that have stagnated in recent decades.

1973 oil prices and 3 day week

1976 IMF bailout because the economy was broken

1980 recession with another global energy crisis

1990 Black Wednesday

2004 beginning of the mass influx of qualified EU nationals which, ime, was a major factor in holding down pay increases.

2007 the global financial crisis, including Gordon Brown taking money from my private pension in a move that had a retrospective impact that I had insufficient time left before retirement to recover.

2020 COVID economic hit.

What can change without getting poorer people to pay more tax so that richer people can inherit their parents house?

"I’m sorry if you felt" I was levelling an accusation at you in my initial reply

Are you a man? Reread what you wrote.

A couple of worthy goals seasoned with soundbites, contradictions and divisiveness. I am sure the most fervent on the left and right could go tit for tat all day about which party did what and who caused more damage. But what does that achieve? They are all culpable. Tomorrow we will still be staring down the barrel of the same financial and economic problems as a country and Andy Burnham and Labour will be trying to tax their way out of it.

A conviction politician I could get behind would be clear about what they believe, prepared to acknowledge mistakes on their own side as well as the opposition's, and more interested in explaining their solutions than identifying someone/ others to hand the blame on. I don't have to like an individual to agree with their politics or their solutions. I would just like to have someone I could respect because they were prepared to take ownership and explain how their plans are going to work, what they will cost and, importantly, the carefully considered trade-offs are.

Also there have been plenty of wars Britain has been involved in, just not on UK soil.

People who have paid their qualifying years NICs can reasonably argue they have paid in. The state has had plenty of opportunity to say that they should be paying more. The old age of the contributors was very predictable.

Not everyone is able to get a job which leaves sufficient to make additional pension contributions. Many jobs are NMW or barely above (supermarket jobs for example). Are people prepared to pay higher prices so that employees can make bigger pension contributions?

I said, “I get the impression you had made up your mind you weren’t going to like it long before the Prime Minister actually opened his mouth” because that was the impression I got on reading what you’d written about Andy Burnham. If that impression was wrong, then I’m honestly sorry. I’m not sure what else you want me to say.

You're wrong on all counts. The plasterer was indeed just a plasterer - no staff, just self employed. Father was indeed a shop worker, mother was indeed a secretary. They all paid for private school (which as I say wasn't particularly expensive as it wasn't an elite school) by making sacrifices such as in my parent's case, no holidays for a few years and running an old car rather than replacing it.