Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look

[TheStateWeAreIn]

I don’t know what to say really, I just want as many women on MN as possible to see this picture.

Particularly Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi‘s wife.

There’s so much going on there.

(I know there’s another thread about the award and it’s subsequent withdrawal, I just wanted to start a thread to focus on the photo)

@Warmlight1 - why should we call her “Sarah”? That would be very patronising, given that she has achieved the role of Archbishop of Canterbury. Did we call the previous AofC Justin or the Pope his first name?

My reading is he's given it to her because he thinks she deserves it more than him- maybe she does all the legwork? Maybe she's the business support? Maybe she keeps the home going so he is free to do other stuff?
According to AI her role is not discussed publicly. So there is perhaps a visibility issue from our point of view we literally can't see what she does. But being in a photo is something isn't it?
So how can the solution to.that be - to keep women out of photos?
I.mean you can't promote visibility by simply saying you don't want to look at something.

@slughater - what drivel. Are we meant to deduce that the bikini-wearing figure is a slag ? The point made again and again is that Islamic women wearing the full covering do not have a choice . If that woman with the AofC ripped off her robe and stood there in a bikini…. Well, do you think would happen to her?

Yr 5 - she's a child & no PE because of her sex? We are going backwards.
Sport is important for so many reasons. Fitness, self discipline, teamwork, mental health.

Bob? I hear he identifies as Leo now.

I agree women can wear what they want. It's entirely possible this person has chosen to go out dressed as a column of cloth. Her husband might even be distressed about the garb she chooses to wear.

However, she currently, arguably, has a choice but she's normalising cultures where that is absolutely not the case and complying in the coercion of women in this country who are forced. It does not behove her to change her dress though.

That would be a very strange thing to do surely? Apart from it being insulting to the people who chose him, then why was he there at all if she does all the leg work? Shouldn't he just have refused it and suggested they give it to his wife instead?

And really, how likely is it that she's out there "doing all the legwork" if she's covered up like that? It was an award for interfaith reconciliation, not an award for women's affairs. How would she be doing that?

More plausible IMO is the BBC's explanation that he couldn't physically take the award from a woman (presumably contaminated?) so his wife came along to be an intermediary - but the award is indeed his.

But if you have any evidence that the wife now owns the award, I'd be interested to see it.

Some time ago a mnetter- can't remember who 'cos am not a stalker😶- linked to a 2002 Stacey Dooley doc from Luton - it's interesting.

Stacey gets compared to an unwrapped sweet dropped on the floor by a particularly chippy niqabi. For some women it has the same anonymity as a balaclava.
Elsewhere she niqabs up with a couple of excitable teens enjoying the attention - ironically.

Time to have a serious discussion in the UK about activism, face covering and social integration. Are we as brave as Denmark?

er no, how on earth did you reach that conclusion?
the point is that BOTH women feel the other is dressing 'for men'
and presumably BOTH would flatly deny that
as I said, I'm only talking about women in situations where they have choice.
The cartoon is from an open access OU course which I've just skimmed, I recommend anyone seeking to really understand Muslim women's dress choices give it a read.
Better still obviously talk to a real life Muslim woman if you think you can do that without patronising them.
I mean why wouldn't this man's wife attend his award ceremony, that's what normally happens isn't it?

And the countries where they have two eyes showing, or in the case of Afghanistan one eye only showing they could ask women if they are ok with that.

I’m sorry, but in the U.K. this is blatant child abuse being accommodated and facilitated by the school. As well as the little girl missing out on physical development, and social integration, all UK schools have a duty of care to ensure all children participate in a balanced curriculum, including PE.

However, it does strike me as rather performative. If the family were that strict fundamentalist adherents to their dogma, I would have thought they would have been reluctant to even allow her to mix with non believers and to be potentially influenced by outside sources and would have opted to have her (very basically) home educated or faith-specific schooling.

This is quite simply institutional enabling, with the school falling over itself out of a fear of causing offence, compromise standard safeguarding and educational standards. I worked as a TA for many years and I wouldn’t have hesitated to raise this as a safeguarding concern.

I think we need to be a lot more black and white in the country about the niqab/burkha and stop pussy footing around about “choices”. It’s simply not acceptable in western culture and not how we do things here.

As a society we are actually very tolerant. If a woman chooses to be modest, it’s perfectly acceptable for her to wear a hijab and loose fitting clothes in public on our streets, but our faces are our identities and what make us all unique and individuals.

The spate of acid attacks in recent years specifically targeting women’s faces are a clear indication of how important removing and disfiguring her looks are about assertion, punishment and control to some men. By taking a woman’s (or indeed a man’s) looks, you make them less of a person because it’s the first thing we all look at when we communicate with each other.

Unfortunately, the Muslim vote is very important to our politicians so I doubt if any will have the cojones to propose a policy such as banning the burkha and will continue to seek a compromise in order not to alienate that particular voting cohort.

I suspect that there is some fear that children will be taken out of school. I think Sara Sharif was.

Yes, interfaith reconciliation. In other words the Church of England prostrating itself to Islam. How they must be laughing at us.

Are we as brave as Denmark? Or Belgium, Austria, France, Tunisia etc?

No, I fear we're not. People here need to wake up and look around and understand what's happening. At the moment we're acting like a boiled frog.

Yes, I watched that documentary with Stacey Dooley. It was very illuminating. I think Stacey was quite shocked by what the niqab wearing women were saying.

Everyone's vote is important, which is why it's so frustrating how disengaged people are.

So now the Open University is peddling this dismal crap?

why are we awarding men who oppress women? Even if woman has been brainwashed enough to allow it. Very depressing

It's a shocker what 'higher' education is selling these days. Follow the money I guess.

Really eye opening. What nonsense.

Reverse the sexes. The woman is being given the award and beaming and her husband is next to her wrapped in black cloth with only his eyes showing. Is it still ok????

Absolutely agree with @WinterGold about the importance of the Islamic vote to most parties and that this distorts decision and policy making around any issues seen as “ sensitive “to Muslims.

I agree with all of this as British- born Muslim woman who wears a hijab. I am practising and I am teaching my children to read the Quran (we have open discussions about other religions and beliefs/lifestyles too) but my daughter wears whatever the PE uniform is and we encourage sports. I find the above example disgusting. It's insidious to me that little girls can't just be little girls and have to be overtly sexualised in this way.

That said, it does irk me to come across Western feminists who talk about womens rights but then went quiet when US/Israel bombed a girls school in Iran or how many of these same feminists don't seem to discuss the fact that miscarriages are sky high in Gaza; women and babies are malnoirished etc.

Maybe I speak from a postion of relative privilege because despite being born and raised Muslim, no one in my circle has either worn a niqab/burkha or expected me to wear it but to my mind, when I think of womens rights and problems Muslim women are facing, issues such as what I've mentioned above is what I think of first as well as the awfulness that is Afghanistan not the burqa/niqab argument. It's a non existent issue for most muslim women however, I do wonder what would happen if this particular woman (the one beong photographed) stepped outside of the house without it? I guess even within one religion, there are nuances and freedom means something different to different people.

@BronzedSun , I care. I care about the immense battle women the world over have waged to attain supposed equality. I care about those (this woman included) for whom that battle is yet to begin. I care about my sisters and the potential impact on us all given the ever increasing presence of Islamic influences in our politics. And I care deeply for my four granddaughters and how their future will be.
Take a look at photos of Iran in the 1970s with women in modern western clothing, out with friends; attending university. Then compare that to Iran now and it all started with the ‘suggestion’ they should wear a headscarf…