Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look

[TheStateWeAreIn]

I don’t know what to say really, I just want as many women on MN as possible to see this picture.

Particularly Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi‘s wife.

There’s so much going on there.

(I know there’s another thread about the award and it’s subsequent withdrawal, I just wanted to start a thread to focus on the photo)

Interesting that people want to pick out particular specifics arguing against my point. It's just whataboutery.

As for a man not accepting an award from a woman, BA firmly told the Saudi Arabian air traffic control that women pilots were not going to be replaced to satisify their cultural expectations. In the 1980s.

It’s clearly going to be preferable to France where secularism in education will be protected at all costs and the burqa is not allowed in public buildings

Agree, and of course they’re going to say that.

The sort of doctrine and dogma that requires women to wear them in the first place, certainly isn’t one that women are likely to feel safe enough to challenge either.

I know. The "its fine" was me being sarcastic. Sorry if you didn't get my tone.

What it makes me consider is what on earth is the matter with men? Not all men, but so many that several major world religions and many societies at different times have come up with rules saying that women have to cover themselves up in the useless hope that men won't be provoked into lustful thoughts by seeing uncovered hair, forearms, ankles etc.

Without totally outing myself I have been in a position of being forced into wearing similar clothing - a long time ago and not in this country. Your point above is totally missing the point that women who dress this way are in fact being treated like pieces of meat, not humans of equal standing to men, with self accountability and freedom of choice.

If you honestly believe the “liberated” women who wear a full burqa do this of their own choice, not because they would face either overt or insidious aggression, judgement and shunning for choosing otherwise, I beg you to think it over.

You’re essentially victim blaming - it’s her fault because her skirt was too short, her top too low, she only wore a hijab, her burqa showed her ankles when she walked. Where the fuck does it end? If men make you feel shit, say so, hold them accountable - don’t be complicit in forcing women into subjugation instead.

I find it heartbreaking that so many in this country will defend this overt cultural (and this is cultural, as many Muslims who vehemently oppose this will attest to) abuse of women. Genuinely upsetting.

I know. Surely it says more about the men being apparently unable to help themselves at the sight of the female form, than women inviting it.

Most religions are so full of contradictions. If you believe your particular sky fairy made everything and s/he is omnipotent, everything s/he created is perfect and it’s a mortal sign to question it, surely by hiding one of her/his creations under a cloth, you’re implying that that individual is not worthy to be seen, and therefore a direct criticism of your sky fairy?

Strange also that some of these cultures clearly want their women hidden away but show off their extortionately expensive flashy cars and love their blingy tacky gold jewellery, despite all three being regarded as chattels.

You have to look twice a the picture to even see the wife in it. No woman would choose to dress like that unless they've been indoctrinated since childhood. It should be banned in the UK as it is in France. The opening of a primary school in London forcing 7yo girls to wear hijab should also be banned. It's disgusting and a step back for women/girls rights ( so the exact opposite of what the government say they support). Can you imagine the types of families a school like that would attract? It would be a terrorist breeding ground. Moderate Muslims don't put their young children in hijabs. Extremist ones do. Approximately 20% of British Muslims are radicalised today. Many of whom were born here. Radical Islam is the biggest threat to our society. This picture should be a wake up call for the woke. Stop calling for " Free Palestine" and start supporting Israel in the war against the Iran backed Islamic terrorist groups which the whole world would be better without ( Then there may actually be a free Palestine).

Why are you pretending the issue is women telling other women what to wear when the issue is the AofC giving an award to a cleric whose religious beliefs subjugate women, and who has brought along his subjugated wife to a) make a show of strength over this and b) because he refuses to touch the Aof C’s hand?

Is this a fake image, then? It's supposed to be Mothin Ali with his wife.

I haven’t RTFT, but just adding that when DH and I were discussing this (both appalled by the CofE in general and the ABC in particular) I said something like ‘and that photo….’
DH didn’t know what I was talking about - he had simply not recognised the dehumanised black bit in the middle as a woman. He was completely horrified.

Women can wear what they want. I doubt he forces her to wear the clothing. It is just as rude and obnoxious to comment on someone wearing modest clothing as it is to comment on someone wearing a skimpy outfit.

All of their outfits are prescribed by their religious beliefs yet you aren’t commenting on the Bishops outfit?

@ErrolTheDragon many others on the thread missed her initially too.

Assuming it’s the same person under the niqab, that is indeed how his wife “chooses” to dress,

Curious juxtaposition of ideals between orthodox deputy Ali and his leader Polanski, who happily cavorted with scantily dressed gay men on stage. Could be a long term bumpy love affair for these two.
But that’s a whole new thread…

Yup.
Mothin Ali's wife is always seen in a Niqab

Just a reminder that the rank of the woman
does not make the misogyny of Muslim men stop
(also why we all knew Imane Khelif was male)

Holy God. Any pictures I've seen of her show her wearing the hijab, but not blanketed (I refuse to use the word 'veiled') from head to foot. But there is so much fakery of images...I'm really not sure.

Why do you doubt that? Do you honestly think women would choose to wear such uncomfortable, impractical and dehumanising garments if they weren't subject to extreme pressure from family and culture?

I'm not pretending anything. I'm not having a kneejerk reaction and condemning a woman who may not have a choice about what she wears. I'm saying I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

And you said you didn't want to talk about the award because it had been withdrawn, and if you read my post carefully you will say that I think Mulally was badly advised to have been put in the position she was in.

She wore a niqab at the green party conference.
She wears a niqab when supporting him on campaign.
I've searched the Getty archive - no pictures of her face yet.

Exactly.

The same excuse they all fucking use. They are men. It’s the one common feature they all have. Black , white, brown, Catholic, C of E, Muslim, agnostic. It’s the XY ,their pathetic egos and poor self esteem that drives them.

Yes, I think this will happen. Other countries are starting to wake up and clamp down on this incursion into Western culture. But not Britain. We have been browbeaten into thinking we must tolerate the intolerant.

I entirely agree.

Really well argued.