Really struggling with 5am starts; is it likely to get better?

[toobloodyearlyforthis]

I know children do wake up early but like a lot of things the actual reality of it is somehow different and it’s hitting me hard.

Is it likely to improve? I thought maybe with the dark mornings it would but if anything it’s getting worse - 455 today!

Why don’t you let her just come in with you? You can cuddle up together and maybe even go back to sleep for an hour. It will also make sure she doesn’t wake the older one.
My DD use to do it and I enjoyed having the cuddle with her especially since I was working full time. She eventually grew out of it. DS never did it and almost kind of wished he did so I could have those early morning cuddles with him.
You’re making it difficult for yourself.

It does then peri menopause hits and it’s you waking at 5 am!

same!

I just thought I'd tell you how we trained the gro clock. You get it and make a big fuss - oh this is so special, just for big girls etc etc. You read the story, you tell your dd that if she can stay in bed until the sun comes up she will get something - sticker on a chart, little sweetie, blah blah. You big up the whole thing.

The first night, you set the gro clock to come on when she naturally wakes up - 5am or whatever, and then when she gets up you make an unholy fuss of just how AMAZING she is, she waited until the sun came up, what a brilliant wee thing she is, you earned the sticker or whatever motivates her. Next day, keep it at the same time, same fuss, sticker on the chart whatever. Keep going until she has bought into the reward and is all pleased with herself. The next night, set it literally 2 minutes later, so she has to wait until it goes yellow. And so on - gradually extend the time, loads of praise and reward. Mine loved it when I told other people about something they did well - I do remember telling the corner shop woman once about how clever mine was to have stayed in bed 😂. As others have said leave things she can use to entertain herself.

gradually she will become trained to stay in bed a bit later. You need to choose a reward that is motivating for her specifically. Mine worked up to a sticker chart where they got to choose something nice (often a magazine with plastic tat on the front) if they got so many stickers.

Thanks all. I’ve quoted this as a couple of people have asked and I’d happily take her into my bed but there’s no chance of her sleeping. She also becomes very challenging to manage as she keeps hurling herself on me and into me and I really don’t like it.

Oh, and white noise. Don’t know if you use it at the minute, but it was a real U-turn in breaking the habit of 4/5 am wake ups. Don’t know what it is really but I think maybe when they start stirring they sort of get hypnotised back to sleep rather than having time to think oh I’m awake I can get up. Don’t know - but it worked! Not always, I won’t lie to you, but much more often she’d sleep through the really early wakes. Have it on pretty loud is my advice - louder than you think. You shouldn’t be able to whisper over it.

I never had that, mine always liked a lie in.

I do remember my child, when about ten months old, woke at 5am for a while but after being seen to, used to snuggle up with us and return to sleep.

Absolutely 💯 agree!

It does get better, when they are older you won't be able to get them out of bed and you will be wide awake early and unable to go back to sleep.

We would have treated a 5am wake up like a middle of the night wake up. I think they’re old enough to be able to do better tbh. It’s getting darker now which will help. But I really wouldn’t be happy with a 9pm bedtime and early wake up. Even my AuADHD 12 year old has only recently started going to bed at 9.30.

This is what I did. I can't get up at 5 am it IS still night time!

Youve probably done this but I think some kids need taught how to roll over and go back to sleep. Linking it to how they fall asleep but with step by step instructions to lie still with eyes closed etc, if they wake and see the sun isn’t up on their clock.

The 6yr old should be capable of grasping this and accepting they need to stay in their room reading if they can’t go back to sleep. 3yr old is trickier. Sending strength to you!!

Google "wake to sleep" method.

We did this with two of ours (years ago now) and it really worked, took 3 or 4 days.

Have you tried bribery?! We did something along the lines of leftoverz post above. Lots of praise and small treats when they stayed in bed just a little longer. Talked at bedtime about the huge hug they would get in the morning when the sun came up on their clock, and how proud I would be, and the treat they would get. Graduated by increments to a weekly sticker chart and a bigger prize of their choosing (new book/toy/special trip out for cake or hot chocolate). It didn't work overnight, but did work with a bit of time and patience (and zigzag-ing!)

Send them back to bed. My parents wouldn’t have tolerated this.

Bwha ha ha at "gro clocks"

DS is now 8. Recent holiday with relatives, he and I shared a room.

<approx middle of night, creepy whisper> MUMMY what time is it?

Me: urgh. 5.22. DS, go back to sleep.

2 min interval

Creepy whisper: "MUMMY.... could Usain Bolt run an ultramarathon? If he wanted to?"

Me: I don't know, probably. it's still nighttime. You need to be quiet now.

Brief interlude.

Creepy whisper: "MUMMY can I test you on your knowledge of outer space?"

Me: NO. It's still bedtime. Shush.

Approx 90 seconds pass.

Creepy whisper: "I can do my 13 times tables backwards."

Me: that's great but not right now please. Still nighttime. We can wake up at 6am.

Approx 45 seconds pass.

Creepy whisper: "when we do get up, can we go for a run and see if the lights are on in anyone else's house?"

<gives up and takes DS for a run>

How to use the “wake to sleep” approach at night or for early morning wake-ups:
How the “wake to sleep” method works is that you start off by setting your alarm one hour prior to your child’s habitual early morning or night wake-up. So if your child is waking up at 4:45am every morning, you would enter the room at 3:45am and start the technique. The purpose of this method is to not wake your baby but gently have them move, sigh, or stir into a lighter cycle of sleep. You can either try touching them ever so gently (if you have a deep sleeper) or if your child is an extremely light sleeper, opening the door to their bedroom may just do the trick. You don’t want your child’s eyes to open, and you definitely don’t want them to wake up. This gentle stir will put your child into another sleep cycle, allowing them the opportunity to sleep past their habitual wake time. Do it one time and if nothing changes, wait a minute and try again. Once they stir, you can walk out and see if they wake an hour later.

People putting kids to bed at 8pm and wondering why they’re awake at 5am

I definitely think this is a much bigger millenial parent problem than it ever was for my parents! My heart is racing at the thought of what would have happened if I’d expected my parents to wake up at 5am at 6 🤣

It definitely gets easier OP!

The darker nights help and as they get older they’ll entertain themselves for a bit even if they still wake early.

Are their curtains dark enough?
I’m assuming you’re a single parent?

8pm is a pretty average time for most kids that age.

I don't think it has to take harsh forms of discipline but you can be strict about anything before 6am being treated like night time. I'd also keep the lights off and minimal talking.

I did learn the hard way to take to the toilet straight away for any night wake. I'd have a good half hour of, "I'm scared of the dark" "I'm worried about goblins" "are ghosts real" "could the house blow away" and then eventually "oh yeah I think I woke up because I need a wee"

Yeah. It wasn’t a problem for my parents either - it was a problem for me. I still woke at 5am but was too frightened to call out or get up because my parents ‘wouldn’t tolerate it’. Cue not knowing how to go back to sleep and waiting 2 hours in the dark, alone. It was pretty shit for me but for sure my parents didn’t have a problem as they slept right through.

I'm not about that for my kids.

Don't feel like a failure, it is fairly normal, my eldest started doing this at this age.

The key is consistency, be next to her but don't engage. She will kick off but honestly after a few days when they get no reaction they get bored of it. It will just be tough at first as it will likely wake the rest of the house, but do persist.

With my son I would go to him, lie in his room and cuddle him and just repeat "shhh it's not morning yet". Kept my eyes closed as much as possible, make sure room is dark. If she does need a wee, take her but don't talk. Everything else, just ignore.

I know parents are tempted to give an ipad or TV so they can go back to sleep but it just teaches their brain that being stimulated at 5am is normal, not great long term.

They will get there, mine (5 and 7) now wake at 7 and we apply the same rules if they wake up before 7. Sometimes the little one will kick off but mostly she knows I won't budge so will grab a book to look at quietly, or just enjoy some cuddles.

Good luck!

My mother casually admitted to putting my brother in the garage in the pram as a baby when he woke in the early hours and wouldn't go back to sleep. She was expecting fellow feeling because one of mine was a poor sleeper. When I expressed incredulity she doubled down and claimed that she did it because he kept me awake, and it was fine apparently because the garage was attached to the house...

Slightly less blatantly, some parents did just shut the bedroom door and leave babies to scream. My husband had an umbilical hernia operated on as a baby and my mil also said it was because he screamed so much and she was told not to spoil him by picking him up as she'd make a "rod for her own back".

The ways of the past were not always wiser.