Dd can't get promoted. Govt job.

[Sadwork]

Not for Facebook use.

Dd is late 20s. She's been working in a govt department for a few years. Has moved up slightly.

She's applied for lots of promotions and had a few interviews. No joy. It's really getting her down. She wants to move from the area she's in but can't afford it. She doesn't live with her dp.
Had anyone experienced this in gov jobs? Does your face have to fit?
She won't want to move back home and tbh commute would be difficult.

It’s really difficult to move up in civil service. There can be 300-700 applicants for any one post. My DH was in civil service for 15 years and promotion was always slow, painful and confidence-destroying. It’s ultimately what made him leave.

So you haven’t said what area she works in or her grade. Saying she’s in management tells us nothing as that could still mean many things. For example I am a G7 in digital and manage 3 people. An HEO in ops might manage many more.

If you could provide some details you might get more specific advice. Is she trying to move up within the same area, for example becoming a team leader in operations? Is she trying to switch profession, for example moving from operations to policy? What grade is she now and what grades is she applying for? This information would help people give better, more tailored advice.

In the absence of that information, here is some general advice.

Firstly, the civil service is generally supportive of helping people progress and she should be discussing her ambitions with her manager. There is a lot of support potentially available, for example arranging mock interviews.

She should have received scores for all her applications and interviews, and should be asking interview chairs for feedback. Has she been doing that? The feedback will tell her how far off the mark she is. Again, it’s hard to give specific advice without this context. For example we don’t know if she’s just missing the mark, or falling far short, or scoring enough to meet the standard but being beaten by other stronger candidates.

Lastly the absolute best thing any civil servant can do to improve their interview technique is to be on a panel themselves - you learn so much being on the other side. I have arranged this for people I know need to improve their interview techniques. In my department you must have one panel from outside your business area so I look out for people in other business areas who are hiring and ask if my staff can do this.

Also a pp mentioned that jobs have to be advertised externally. I’ll just clarify that only applies to permanent roles not EOIs.

OP, I have known some civil servants who do not interview well, decide the system is against them and choose to complain to others about how unfair it is - rather than appreciating and using the feedback they receive, and engaging with the many, many sources of support available to improve interview technique and experience (line manager, e-learning, holiday cover opportunities, etc). I don’t know if your daughter is one of these, but don’t let her become one.

I don’t know your DD’s grade but I recently lead a recruitment campaign for a single post at G7. We had an insane number of people apply, and interviewed 20 for just 1 post. The quality of candidate is enhanced beyond what most think. And unfortunately, part of it is who you know as there are a lot of TPs about that skew and lead to perm. posts at the level. If DD doesn’t play the game, she’ll lose.

Gosh, I would say the opposite to that. Civil service is pretty strict on that.

I’d agree what PP said, in recent years the CS has expanded and promotion has been easier, I’ve also seen a lot of grade creep where people have been promoted above their skill/experience level - so others see that and assume that’s what an eg HEO does, when actually expectations used to be quite a bit higher, and likely will be future. Now the CS is contracting, or attempting too, people who haven’t been pushed to work at the top of their grade will struggle to get the very limited available promotions. The grade guidance for her dept should be helpful at showing what expectations are for the grade above and usually how many years experience you might be expected to have.

Ive been in public service/CS for over 20 years and I got promoted a couple of times very quickly to start with, then had a much longer stretch at HEO as I needed to build the breadth of my experience before moving up. I did 3 HEO posts plus a short secondment. Then was able to move up the next couple of grades quicker.

I would suggest that she might consider lateral moves in the short term and/or ensure that she is working at the very top of her grade or above in her current role. Her LM should also support her in this, and she should seek out opportunities to stretch and work on projects or pieces of work which will help her bank of examples.

This is literally the norm.

Long gone are the boomer days where if you worked hard and were loyal you got rewarded. Now if you work hard and are good at your job your guaranteed not to be promoted because you're too valuable in the position.

If you want a promotion or a pay rise you move jobs.

Has she committed to her own professional development to increase her chances?

The job market is awful for everyone at the moment! And there have been a lot of redundancies in the civil service so it’s logical that a lot of people are going for the same jobs.

As already said here, tailor the application to the job, follow the CS interview style, ask for feedback, practice interviewing as a skill.

But remember that you can do everything right, interview well, and just not be the chosen candidate. Doesn’t mean something is wrong with you, but that someone had the edge, or is already working closer to the role.

The civil service has working hubs all over the country. If she’s unhappy with where she lives and wants to move, couldn’t she look at getting her office base transferred?

Final thought - as someone who has worked in both private and public sector (including government), people often stick with the civil service believing it to be the classic “job for life”, and you’ve even added in your comments that she’ll be lucky to find anything as safe. This just isn’t the case anymore. She might do better to diversify where she is looking/applying.

dc was on a training scheme then got a permanent job and subsequently a promotion but the most recent promotion opportunity they were hoping for has never materialised as there is currently a recruitment freeze.

Sorry OP. My bright, hardworking, reliable 16 year old DD can't even get a Saturday job at the moment! Been rejected from a job interview as a store assistant at Next! Can't believe it!
In my day you could get a job inside of a week! it's rubbish

That's a great idea, I'll keep it in mind when I eventually go for promotion (although from this thread it looks like that'll be a while!)

Thank you.

If it's civil service there are exams- they can be tricky, and your face does have to fit to an extent. In public service you can't really expect big promotions after only a few years.

@Laurmolonlabethere are not exams…not for most people at least! Some might do some technical testing in specialist roles, but even that wouldn’t be called an exam.

I'm not sure that's the case, my partner was a civil servant for 33 years and went in for promotion a couple of times, he said it is like an exam. He was an Executive Officer, not particularly high up.

Competency based applications and interviews, not exams. Once upon a time the cs promoted based on length of service rather than merit and performance.

There did used to be an entrance exam when there was a general recruitment at EO. You sat it before knowing which department or location you'd be based at. But that stopped sometime in the early 90s. The successful candidates were always referred to as direct entrants.

Whatever your DD decides, do not move into local government. I cannot stress this hard enough. She will not find progression and promotion there.

@Sadwork I'm stuck in the same position as your daughter though I'm a good bit older.

I think the unfortunate reality is that most companies are pyramids, which necessitates most people being stuck at the bottom. The trait I notice that all senior or management employees have is that they are good looking and sociable.