Should I tell mum my brother borrows from her account?

[Cheesestrawz]

Hi,
I have a dilemma

. Brother and I manage our mums finances. She has capacity mentally but she struggles with other health issues so asks us to sort out anything finance related. She’s fortunate to have quite a healthy amount of money saved.
my issue is that my brother sometimes borrows from her account without asking. He always repays it but I think it’s wrong.
his view has that mum has lent him money before and told him that he can always borrow. I know this is true but it’s the not asking that I don’t like. He says she would stress over it and would just try and give him the money.
I’ve told him that it cannot happen again. Do I tell mum?
I

You should tell your mum.

Yes

Definitely tell your DM. You may both have PoA, but it is still her money.

The issue is she did tell him that he could always borrow

It's financial abuse @Cheesestrawz .

Yes, tell her. That's financial abuse/fraud/elder abuse/abuse of PoA... Take you pick. She needs to revoke his PoA and remove his access to her bank accounts and finances. It seems like something that could quickly spiral out of control and result in her having no money.

Yes tell her.

You could say you got the annual statement through or whatever - your choosing, did you know brother was using your account. He needs to own up too.

My Nan bless her got upset towards the end (and this still makes me feel awful) because my Mum asked her what these monthly payments for £7.99 a month were to Amazon? She thought she was being scammed.

What had happened - I feel awful 10 years later. Nan had given me her card details to put on Amazon to buy Christmas presents and birthday presents for the kids from her. That's all we particularly used it for, my card her card.
My card had expired and I honestly didn't think Amazon back then but for 4 months it had defaulted to her card. The money wasn't the problem it was the worry that she'd been scammed or something.
In hindsight now, I know how it all works and I have 2 accounts.

Anyway! I paid her back, put my new card on there. Took hers off. But it's the fact that she was confused and I upset her. She was fine once she knew, but yeah, I'd try and take from my Nan for Prime that I wasn't using.

So yes, tell your Mum, I know she's of sound mind, just not coping with the life admin - hello! But she shouldn't have to notice these things and it be upsetting for her.
Let her make her own choices. It's her money.

That makes no sense
I actually started crying, she's gone nearly 9 years now.

Insert appropriate words!

I don’t see too much of an issue then, especially if he always pays back. I think if you tell her she’s going to tell him to keep it - so you run that risk by the sounds of it? Is she aware he originally borrowed from her bank account and she was fine with this?
How much and how often are we talking? And what’s the reason for the borrowing?

If she’s said he can borrow when he wants to then I don’t see the issue. She’s given him permission to borrow and he always pays it back.

I don't think you need to tell her unless he doesn't pay it back within a decent timeframe.

What is the problem then? She had said he can always borrow, he always pays it back. Non issue.

No it’s not. She’s given full permission for him to borrow money.

I am not sure what the benefit of telling her this has happened in the past is - as long as all funds have been repaid.

You've told him you are uncomfortable with it - and want him to tell her if he does it again.

So monitor it and make sure he does. Pretty sure she will say go ahead, your discomfort with him 'taking advantage' goes away and you avoid anyone having their feelings too hurt.

I think in these potentially charged situations - take the view no-one is setting out to be malicious and put the relationships first. Obviously in a situation where there is actual harm you take action - I'm not saying ignore things, just that you should actively avoid escalations and hurt feelings.

It’s a difficult position because although your mum always allowed it in the past she no longer has capacity to make the decision. So as her POA I think your responsibility is to act in her best interests but also to execute her affairs the way she would have wanted or would have done if she still had capacity.
From what you’ve said this would include lending your brother the money.

i would tell her but in an informative way ….. George borrows cash occasionally from your account but always pays it back in a not a big deal manner.

When you say ‘borrowing’, do you mean your DM is actively transferring money from her account into his, or is he actively taking it using her bank card? Does she still have capacity to make such decisions?
It could be classed as financial abuse or just plain theft. Or if she has capacity and is transferring it, she’s just being generous. Either way, you need to have a discussion with her.

OP says she still has full mental capacity.

If she has said it is fine and they have a healthy relationship and he always repay, I don't really see an issue.

Not sure what the issue is? If she said he could borrow (and you know this is true) and he always pays it back, it’s not a problem is it?

You both need to decide where the line is. She still has capacity. I think that i would tell her.
I have POA for my mum with dementia. I can absolutely see how people are tempted to self help tbh. I have no doubt I could convince myself that Mum would want me to lend money to myself or siblings how she used to. However, I think that is a slippery slope and absolutely won't.
However as your Mum has capacity I would tell her.

Yes, you should most certainly tell your mum. She is not his personal bank for him to keep borrowing money, irrespective of whether he always pays it back. He is effectively stealing it as he does not have her permission each time. More importantly, why does he need to keep borrowing?

I agree that if she has capacity; she said he can borrow, and he always pays it back, there's no real issue. Especially as you also have access to the account so can check and verify that he's paid back in full.

He does have her permission.

it’s the not asking that I don’t like. He says she would stress over it and would just try and give him the money.

Assuming that that's true, he's avoiding her giving him money, which surely is good?

He needs to ask an 'in theory' question. And get proper approval to borrow without asking. There's a big difference between saying you can borrow any time, but that you're aware of it, and him borrowing without telling her.