Shelling & fighting has started in Ukraine. A preschool was shelled😢 we will all be affected, poor Ukrainians.

[Southerngal5]

Noone was injured in the preschool shelling but gunfire, shelling & fighting has begun. I'm devestated for the Ukrainians & also very worried about how it will all affect us here..

There is a concern that it was a 'false flag' attack - no independent observers in the area.

I noticed that it's barely making the front page of the BBC website - there's a rolling 'live update' but it's showing other aspects, and it's not among the 10 'most read' stories.

What's a false flag attack? I'm seeing it in alot of the articles but I don't quite understand!
I read it in the Guardians live feed, I'm usually quite calm but I've a bad feeling about all this

False flag means that the attack was carried out by one side (on itself or on an ally) whilst making it look as though the other side did it.

It's usually used as a pretext for 'retaliatory' action, or to garner support/sympathy and exert pressure on the other side.

Can backfire, if the other side decides they may as well act as they've been blamed already

Yeah the media have been heavily briefed that the situation could be Created by Moscow.

There will be a lot of caution around reporting it

Yes the media seem to be publishing all the intelligence they know of, I guess the West are trying to stay one step ahead of putin

A) The first reports of this came out over 7 hours ago.

B) Nothing has yet been verified and there is almost nothing in the news or on twitter about this.

C) You are being alarmist and this thread is attention-seeking fear-mongering.

I just saw a headline saying the recent reports of withdrawal were a lie?

Why because I am interested in current affairs? In case you haven't noticed the UK is in the middle of a cost of living crisis, food, energy, rents are now causing many families to really struggle who normally wouldn't.. The UK sent more troops & ammunition to Estonia last night, this is at the tax payers expense... A war in Europe is going to cause even more inflation & higher energy costs, transport everything.. Its a fact not scare mongering.

@Southerngal5

Why because I am interested in current affairs? In case you haven't noticed the UK is in the middle of a cost of living crisis, food, energy, rents are now causing many families to really struggle who normally wouldn't.. The UK sent more troops & ammunition to Estonia last night, this is at the tax payers expense... A war in Europe is going to cause even more inflation & higher energy costs, transport everything.. Its a fact not scare mongering.

A war in Europe would indeed cause prices to rise, I agree.

But that's not what your thread is about. You assert that "shelling and fighting" has started in Ukraine, when there is no evidence that this is true. That is scare-mongering.

Well maybe look up the guardian live Ukraine feed & you'll see what I read.

@JacketOnTheHook

I just saw a headline saying the recent reports of withdrawal were a lie?

Well it certainly looked very stage-managed.

Can I ask, in all seriousness, what effects here you are directly or personally worried about? I’m criticism because I agree with a PP that it seems rather alarmist and a whip up of a good old panic competition thread.

*sorry, curious not criticism

People are allowed to discuss what interests them without permission.

@Southerngal5

Well maybe look up the guardian live Ukraine feed & you'll see what I read.

I already have. The guardian is reporting that the shelling is attempted provocation.

This is not the same as alleging that the war is starting, as you have done.

Why is anything that someone doesn't want to discuss so quickly labelled as scare mongering these days?

Somebody on the news said weeks ago there would be a fake attack to start a proper war. Seems like they weren't far wrong.

Lockheart and who made you thread monitor? If you don't like the thread report it, don't just try and censor conversation.

I worried as the UK is sticking its oar in, the country & it's tax payers (which I am one of) honestly can't afford this. I'm worried about the possibility of cyber attacks, fuel shortages & very fuel high prices, further inflation to food & also even higher energy costs as an indirect consequence... On a human level I really feel for the Ukrainian people who come accross as so stoic & proud. War in Europe is incredibly close to home.

@Southerngal5

Why because I am interested in current affairs? In case you haven't noticed the UK is in the middle of a cost of living crisis, food, energy, rents are now causing many families to really struggle who normally wouldn't.. The UK sent more troops & ammunition to Estonia last night, this is at the tax payers expense... A war in Europe is going to cause even more inflation & higher energy costs, transport everything.. Its a fact not scare mongering.

Why are we doing that though?

Germany does nothing and are even preventing UK military supplies from flying over.

Germany just care about their gas. They’ve chosen the wrong side tbh.

I totally agree about fear mongering. The thread title itself sounds like children have been killed. Shame on you OP.

What a stupid thread title, just alarming people for no good reason!!

Shelling and gunfire is an almost daily thing in Eastern Ukraine for the last few years..just because its not broadcast on the news here, doesn't mean its not happening.

No, we are.

We are in this because the US have decided to act strong in the hope the mess in Afghanistan is forgotten we as always are their cheerleader.

Russia want reassurances that NATO are going to leave them a buffer zone, instead we encourage Ukraine to join.