Shelling & fighting has started in Ukraine. A preschool was shelled😢 we will all be affected, poor Ukrainians.

[Southerngal5]

Noone was injured in the preschool shelling but gunfire, shelling & fighting has begun. I'm devestated for the Ukrainians & also very worried about how it will all affect us here..

@OurWorldIsChanging

Lockheart and who made you thread monitor? If you don't like the thread report it, don't just try and censor conversation.

I'm not censoring conversation, I'm challenging misinformation. I'm sorry if that ruins whatever OP is trying to achieve with the overly emotive thread title and panicky posts.

I'm worried as the UK is sticking its oar in,
A lot of countries are worried about Russia invading Ukraine. We stood back and allowed Russia to annex the Crimea. It now wants Ukraine. Or it wants NATO to say it won't allow Ukraine to become a member. But that should be Ukraine's decision, not Russia's. Ukraine is appealing for support from the international community and your response is we should all look the other way. You're alarmed that a school is being shelled and say you're "devastated" for the Ukranians but actually you're not that bothered because you don't want anyone to help them in case that makes your fuel price go up.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

No, we are.

We are in this because the US have decided to act strong in the hope the mess in Afghanistan is forgotten we as always are their cheerleader.

Russia want reassurances that NATO are going to leave them a buffer zone, instead we encourage Ukraine to join.

It's all music to Boris's ears, this couldn't have come at a better time for him. Great deflection...

Good timing for him, agree.

@Louisianagumbo

I'm worried as the UK is sticking its oar in, A lot of countries are worried about Russia invading Ukraine. We stood back and allowed Russia to annex the Crimea. It now wants Ukraine. Or it wants NATO to say it won't allow Ukraine to become a member. But that should be Ukraine's decision, not Russia's. Ukraine is appealing for support from the international community and your response is we should all look the other way. You're alarmed that a school is being shelled and say you're "devastated" for the Ukranians but actually you're not that bothered because you don't want anyone to help them in case that makes your fuel price go up.

Agree agree agree.

We are on the right side of history by supporting Ukraine. It’s morally right.

Can somebody please explain the 'fake attack' to me. To someone who is extremely tired. As Boris Johnson seems to call it the 'false flag operation'
Who does he think did it?

It's all confusing, I've been following all day, I think the Russians will definitely invade at this stage...

I would stop stirring and read more before starting alarmist threads.

Stirring what exactly? It's going to have a knock on effect on us all.. It's the closet Europe has been to war in years.

I genuinely do not believe there will be an invasion.
I am not one for living in denial. Earlier today I was worried, but only for a few minutes. It doesn't look great. But we are dealing with many egotistical leaders, neither want to throw the first punch purely because it would prove the other side right.
Lots of willy waving will carry on for a couple of weeks and eventually it will fizzle out for a couple of years.

In fact, throughout the years, I have always explained to my eldest daughter, (who has always been interested in current affairs) in a way that relates to the play ground so she can grasp whats going on.
She is 14 now. I called it willy waving to her snd she gave the best analogy.
They are all claiming to have the biggest balls but no one is brave enough to pull their pants down to prove it.

If any military action is used against Russia, they will play the victim. If Russia does invade Ukraine then he has shown himself to be a liar in front of the world!

Putin is a smart man! He knows how to scare the world and he has done it (look my willy is bigger than yours) but he is too smart to invade. It is when Putin goes quiet that scares me.

I'm worried too OP and I don't think you're 'stirring' by wanting to discuss it.

The announcement yesterday by the EU guy (sorry can't remember names) that they had seen no evidence of retreat chilled me. He made some ominous statements about nuclear capability and how this is the greatest build up of forces since the Cold War. It spooked me.

As for being worried about how it might affect us - of course we can worry, and be deeply concerned for the Ukrainian people at the same time.

@saltedBubbly

I'm worried too OP and I don't think you're 'stirring' by wanting to discuss it.

The announcement yesterday by the EU guy (sorry can't remember names) that they had seen no evidence of retreat chilled me. He made some ominous statements about nuclear capability and how this is the greatest build up of forces since the Cold War. It spooked me.

As for being worried about how it might affect us - of course we can worry, and be deeply concerned for the Ukrainian people at the same time.

I'm usually quite calm but I think this is going to escalate quickly. It's awful for the Ukrainians, just awful & I don't think Putin should get his own way... What rattled me last week were the similaries to Hitler laying out his demands & the "appeasement" & he started a war anyway... Obviously this war could be different but the threat of cyber attacks is very real...

@Southerngal5

Why because I am interested in current affairs? In case you haven't noticed the UK is in the middle of a cost of living crisis, food, energy, rents are now causing many families to really struggle who normally wouldn't.. The UK sent more troops & ammunition to Estonia last night, this is at the tax payers expense... A war in Europe is going to cause even more inflation & higher energy costs, transport everything.. Its a fact not scare mongering.

A war in Europe is going to cause even more inflation & higher energy costs, transport everything

If that's all a war in Europe causes, we will have got off very, very lightly.

I don’t know if this will make you feel better or worse, OP, but maybe better? The fact is, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. And they stayed. That’s when the time to worry was. A thread on MN back then about whether that would start WWIII only got 43 comments, and that’s it. No one cared. No one seemed to care anywhere. Those of us paying attention and, Im sure, the probable preschools in Ukraine that were legitimately bombed by Russia when they took the Crimea (and have taken Donbas, now held by “Russian-loyal separatists” so… Russia) back then couldn’t believe it. There was no COVID yet, no Brexit, no rising food and energy costs, so there may have been a lot less to fear on a daily basis. But there was the exact same amount for Ukraine to fear. They were invaded by Russia, permanently annexed, they lost part of their country, and they’ve never gotten it back. So I guess I’m mot exactly sure why everyone is so surprised or concerned. The time to be scared was 2014, when the international community let Russia take part of Ukraine and did nothing. It’s too late now. And since they took part of Ukraine and no one stopped them… Of COURSE they were eventually going to come for the rest of it. The only thing that probably delayed them this long was COVID, because it definitely wasn’t fear of an international response (see the complete lack of response in 2014). When WWIII does truly happen, it will mutual assured destruction, nuclear weapons, and it will be over within hours and nothing will be left.

The thread from 2014: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2035549-Ukraine-WWIII

And I’m really, really not trying to be glib or negative, OP, especially if you’re anxious. I just don’t think this moment, and Ukraine, is why anyone should be worried about WWIII.

Not only did we do nothing when Rusdia invaded Crimea- we also did nothing when Russia released weapons of mass destruction not once but twice on UK soil.

The attack on Litvinienko and the Salisbury attacks were both utterly reckless and easily had the potential to kill hundreds of people.

Putin was testing the water and we did nothing.

Sorry for my typos

I'm usually quite calm but I think this is going to escalate quickly.

I'm usually quite calm but I've a bad feeling about all this

Twice OP lets us know she is 'usually calm' and then goes on to make a prediction of doom - she "thinks" it's all going to escalate quickly, she has a 'bad feeling' about this.

That plus using 'a preschool' in the title is why people are saying this is a purposefully scaremongering thread. No-one's happy about the situation but can we not raise fear with disingenuous hyperbole of the 'there are special reasons for everyone to worry because I, a usually calm person, have a FEELING and I'm going to GUESS pessimistic outcomes' type of thing.

@ApplesinmyPocket

I'm usually quite calm but I think this is going to escalate quickly.

I'm usually quite calm but I've a bad feeling about all this

Twice OP lets us know she is 'usually calm' and then goes on to make a prediction of doom - she "thinks" it's all going to escalate quickly, she has a 'bad feeling' about this.

That plus using 'a preschool' in the title is why people are saying this is a purposefully scaremongering thread. No-one's happy about the situation but can we not raise fear with disingenuous hyperbole of the 'there are special reasons for everyone to worry because I, a usually calm person, have a FEELING and I'm going to GUESS pessimistic outcomes' type of thing.

I'm not sure why you're deriding OP so much. It is scary, and worrying.

@saltedBubbly

Not only did we do nothing when Rusdia invaded Crimea- we also did nothing when Russia released weapons of mass destruction not once but twice on UK soil.

The attack on Litvinienko and the Salisbury attacks were both utterly reckless and easily had the potential to kill hundreds of people.

Putin was testing the water and we did nothing.

This.

They didn't use WMD on British soil.

They carried out assassinations, using advanced poisons developed in their chemical weapons programme. And did so without caring if there were victims beyond the targets.

But that is far from being an attack aimed at Mass Destruction.

@meditrina

They didn't use WMD on British soil.

They carried out assassinations, using advanced poisons developed in their chemical weapons programme. And did so without caring if there were victims beyond the targets.

But that is far from being an attack aimed at Mass Destruction.

They absolutely did use WMD on British soil. The US definition of WMD is;

Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons capable of a high order of destruction or causing mass casualties and exclude the means of transporting or propelling the weapon where such means is a separable and divisible part from the weapon. Also called WMD

By this definition both the Polonium used to kill Litvinenko and the Novichok attack in Salisbury used WMD. I'm not suggesting the intention was to kill anyone other than their intended targets - obviously with the Novichok attack had they intended to kill lots of people they could have very easily done so by spreading it around. But the fact that they so brazenly and recklessly used chemical weapons on British soil and suffered almost no consequences is astounding

That's the weapon ie the delivery method.

What happened here were individual assassinations using an advanced CW and radiological agents. But as they were not delivered in a way to cause mass or indiscriminate casualties it is not WMD.