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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

837 replies

nauticant · 24/09/2026 13:07

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

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19
KWaldron · 25/09/2026 22:12

ProfLargofesse · 25/09/2026 16:54

So their ‘get out of jail free card’ is that it is standard to refuse support if a member has external LA although the only reason for that is because RCN did nothing other than tell her to treat her suspension like a paid holiday before trying to move her out of A&E.

NP tried to hold onto the logic of his decision, clearly believing it would win the day because ETs generally uphold employers if ‘process’ has been followed.

But a) he didn’t read any documents so was relying on testimony OTHER than SP or MG. B) he didn’t wait for the application to be submitted or consider any arguments as to why this might require a different approach because the member was being scapegoated by NHS Fife and RCN had left her to blow jn the wind.

I think NC demonstrated clearly that it was an avoidance tactic, so they could avoid getting involved because their management was so wholly captured.

I think the J might struggle to argue this adherence to ‘process’ in extraordinary circs is a rational, considered response rather than one made out of fear and one that, in effect, looks discriminatory - but what do I know.

Thanks for the excellent summary and insight.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/09/2026 22:07

Another one thanking everyone for their c & p & keeping us all updated.

KittyWilkinson · 25/09/2026 21:40

Even in a female dominated union the weasly mediocre men manage to grift to the top and call the shots.

LovelyHotDonutsNiceNFresh · 25/09/2026 21:34

SP, having been told at the previous judgment that she should have loudly and clearly (and very very politely) stated that she had reasonable cause to invoke her right to single sex spaces and not get her kit off in front of the bloke trying to insist on it...

also should have declared loudly to all that it was a Firmly Held Belief

A belief that was so firmly held that the fragrant Dr Upton required an escort back to his car lest he dissolve in fear of it, yet also not so firmly held that the RCN believed it was firmly held enough to support it ... or just that it was the Wrong Side of Firmly Held Belief.

Mollyollydolly · 25/09/2026 21:26

My friend does live subtitling. I don't know how they do it. They 'speak' the news into a microphone and it converts it into subtitles. A very intense job, used to be done by stenographers but how the technology has moved on.

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 21:03

I could do a little c/p next week, but not for more than an hour in total a day. Two half hours would be even better. That's all I could cope with - I have no idea how @BettyBooper and @fanOfBen manage.
Mind, I am old and have Long Covid.

How TTs can do this is just amazing. I remember when I was at school we were told that simultaneous translators at places like the UN can work only for 15 minutes at a time before they get a break. Do they spell each other?

Does "spell" make sense? It's not a word I've seen used recently. It would mean at least two people were available all the time, and when one had concentrated for long enough another would take over - turn and turn about, another phrase which might have gone out of usage. I told you I was old.

At the moment I would not be free to do it on Monday afternoon (dentist), Wednesday (work, although I retired years ago) and on Friday morning. I can't remember anything else next week without consulting my diary.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/09/2026 21:02

weegielass01 · 25/09/2026 20:57

I am "half hope, half agony" as to whether it, and the new P&P, will be any good. The Netflix Persuasion one was utter shite.

Is the new P&P the one with the profoundly irritating they/them Emma corrin?

weegielass01 · 25/09/2026 20:57

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:07

Is it a derail to ask if anyone's going to see the new Sense and Sensibility movie? 😬

I am "half hope, half agony" as to whether it, and the new P&P, will be any good. The Netflix Persuasion one was utter shite.

TheyAreLovelyLovelyPeople · 25/09/2026 20:53

Wow thank you all for the cutting and pasting and commentary. As always, very grateful.

(Sorry have been MIA, RL stuff getting in the way)

Fist bumps all round, wims.

ickky · 25/09/2026 20:20

fanOfBen · 25/09/2026 18:42

I actually didn't do any C&P today, so don't deserve thanks - they're all for @BettyBooper and @SomewhatGlad ! If anyone's up for thinking about next week, I should be available for Monday morning, but likely not afternoon; on Tuesday for early and late, but not 11-3ish; on Wednesday morning but likely not afternoon; and on Thursday provided they don't run late. However having recently retired and feeling allergic to commitment, let me say that's only an estimate, not a promise!

I don't know how you all manage, it gives me RSI.

Well done you lot.

I Dont Want To Season 1 GIF by Friends
KittyWilkinson · 25/09/2026 20:14

Very many thanks to all. @nauticant I salute you! I appreciate the links and commentary, TT and the great cut and pasters @BettyBooper @fanOfBen @SomewhatGlad .
What a read! I'm just catching up.

CassOle · 25/09/2026 20:13

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:07

Is it a derail to ask if anyone's going to see the new Sense and Sensibility movie? 😬

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/films/5582330-sense-sensibility

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/films/5581813-sense-and-sensibility

It's interesting how one thread is more positive and the other more negative.

/EndDerail.

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 19:59

'crap generic bonnets' was funny enough, but under the username of
'MyThreeWords' it really tickled me😁

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 19:16

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:07

Is it a derail to ask if anyone's going to see the new Sense and Sensibility movie? 😬

I'll wait until it's on Netflix!

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 19:15

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:00

You mistake me, my dear. I have a high respect for your nerves. They are my old friends. I have heard you mention them with consideration these twenty years at least. 😆

😁

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:13

MyThreeWords · 25/09/2026 19:09

I love that book. It is so intensely thoughtful. I am a bit scared of watching the adaptation, in case it is crap generic bonnets.

The risk is real!

MyThreeWords · 25/09/2026 19:09

I love that book. It is so intensely thoughtful. I am a bit scared of watching the adaptation, in case it is crap generic bonnets.

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:07

Is it a derail to ask if anyone's going to see the new Sense and Sensibility movie? 😬

DauntlessDamson · 25/09/2026 19:01

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:00

You mistake me, my dear. I have a high respect for your nerves. They are my old friends. I have heard you mention them with consideration these twenty years at least. 😆

Ooh, Mr Bennett!

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 19:00

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 18:48

Alas I'm allergic to cut and pasting. It brings me out in hives, and plays havoc with my nerves!

You mistake me, my dear. I have a high respect for your nerves. They are my old friends. I have heard you mention them with consideration these twenty years at least. 😆

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 18:57

fanOfBen · 25/09/2026 18:42

I actually didn't do any C&P today, so don't deserve thanks - they're all for @BettyBooper and @SomewhatGlad ! If anyone's up for thinking about next week, I should be available for Monday morning, but likely not afternoon; on Tuesday for early and late, but not 11-3ish; on Wednesday morning but likely not afternoon; and on Thursday provided they don't run late. However having recently retired and feeling allergic to commitment, let me say that's only an estimate, not a promise!

Ah, @fanOfBen you have done sterling in keeping the c&p alive. Credit where due! 💪

Thanks @SomewhatGlad for picking up this afternoon, makes such a difference to read the tweets with the great commentary!

I can pick up next week, but not completely wanting to be tied to timings either. I'm sure between us all we can do it though.

Shall we leave it with you'll start Monday, but if for some reason you can't / don't want to, I'll pick up and we'll go from there?

Happy for anyone else to dive in though!

AWomanOfWealthAndTaste · 25/09/2026 18:49

Wishesandhorses · 25/09/2026 18:42

....... I'm sure I've got this wrong.

SP, having been told at the previous judgment that she should have loudly and clearly (and very very politely) stated that she had reasonable cause to invoke her right to single sex spaces and not get her kit off in front of the bloke trying to insist on it...

also should have declared loudly to all that it was a Firmly Held Belief.

Are we going to be issued with cards with all the things we have to state formally in order to not have to undress in front of an unbalanced man intent on making us do so? And where we make these statements? Does hanging out of the window and shouting it into the world count? Emergency megaphones to be installed in women's single sex spaces so you can hang out of the door and recite what's becoming a kind of speech declaration?

Cards would actually be progress. At least then we'd be aware of the expectations and could work through the checklist.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 18:48

fanOfBen · 25/09/2026 18:42

I actually didn't do any C&P today, so don't deserve thanks - they're all for @BettyBooper and @SomewhatGlad ! If anyone's up for thinking about next week, I should be available for Monday morning, but likely not afternoon; on Tuesday for early and late, but not 11-3ish; on Wednesday morning but likely not afternoon; and on Thursday provided they don't run late. However having recently retired and feeling allergic to commitment, let me say that's only an estimate, not a promise!

Alas I'm allergic to cut and pasting. It brings me out in hives, and plays havoc with my nerves!