Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

910 replies

nauticant · 24/09/2026 13:07

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
RoseInAPot · 25/09/2026 15:03

Of interest from Nick who has been doing some reading during the break...

[the Carr report was written in 2022 and it is strong. This from the Exec Summary: "The RCN has been described as being “in a state of crisis as it goes blindly from one catastrophe to another without any respite in sight”. On the basis...

... of what I have seen, it is difficult to argue with that assessment."]

["It is an organisation which at its top, is riddled with division, dysfunction and distrust. Whilst the distrust is most prominent relation to the RCN’s Council and its Executive, it extends...

["... to relationships within Council and within the membership as well as between its professional and trade union arms."]

["There is a culture of suspicion within Council in which it does not believe that the Executive is acting in the best interests of the members..."]

Blimey.

["The culture of suspicion is further driven by fear of the next Emergency General Meeting (EGM). Both staff and Council members alike operate in an atmosphere in which they expect that their decisions will lead to a revolt from active groups within the membership who, due to the threshold requirement of 1,000 votes, are able to trigger an EGM as has been done twice in the last four years. This in turn causes organisational paralysis."]

["The make-up of Council does not reflect the membership of the College – despite recent improvements in the gender balance, it is still nearly 60% male whereas the membership is almost 90% female. As far as ethnicity is concerned, it is no better and the current Council is not reflective of the fact that around 45% of RCN members are from the BAME community. Many of those who serve on Council are seen as being “the same old faces” who have operated in the upper echelons of the College for many years. This, together with the lack of women or ethnic minority members, permits of a culture in which the College is seen to be run by middle-aged, white men. The substantial number of resignations from Council in recent years has only served to reinforce this perception. If RCN members do not feel that the College looks like they do – whether it be by reference to gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or disability – they will at best not engage with and be active in it and at worst, will take their membership elsewhere."]

[Wow - "There is a real issue that needs to be addressed in relation to the culture of Congress. The evidence that I have seen suggests that there is a level of expectation amongst a significant number of (male) attendees that opportunities for sexual activity will present themselves at Congress. As a consequence, the boundaries between consensual and potentially exploitative sexual activity are at risk of becoming blurred if they have not already done so. That Congress is seen as a place at which there is, for at least some attendees, an expectation of, or an opportunity for, sex to take place, means that there is also the opportunity for alcohol and power-related exploitation of the vulnerable."]

[okay we're back]

....

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:03

TT
NC - Your PA LP asked MG for some detail of case to have conv with you about. But we see an outline from MG. Turn to p334, see MG attendance note, think you accept that this is a fair outline of your conv on 12 Feb.

NP - yes (says something about permission I missed

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:02

I think he's relieved NC hasn't gone straight back into eunuch questions.

I suspect his relief will be short lived.

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:01

TT
We resume

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:59

About to restart

Justabaker · 25/09/2026 14:57

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:54

Deliberate or a typo, Justabaker? :-)

Good either way.

(I have been a statistician, Normal is normal to me.)

AHHHHHH

Typo.

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 14:57

chilling19 · 25/09/2026 14:50

I must say I preferred the fully remote hearings carried out during COVID - we could actually see who was questioning and who was being questioned. <Fond memories of Ben C>

At least in this one we have a full front view of the witness even if he is at the far end of the room. And a good side view of the lawyers and the judge. And the screen is full size, not taken up with dozens of thumbnails of all the observers' blank screens.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:57

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:51

Hmmmm in that case, no mercy - 'Go on Nay, give 'im 'ell!'

He's definitely not happy that his carefully prepared management approved waffle isn't cutting it.

Justabaker · 25/09/2026 14:54

ickky · 25/09/2026 14:49

She also said fetishists

A thought on that one.....

Live tweeting at it's best, one is completely in the flow, the words come in the ears and out the fingers and the brain does very little filtering on the way. But there are words that get stuck in the filter - fetishist might be an example. And one could stop to thing - was that really said - or decide the rest of the words were more than enough to make the point.

Given the kicking TT has had in that very courtroom, sometimes, it may be better omit a spectacular word and be certain than to get the entire flaming sword.

edited

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:54

Justabaker · 25/09/2026 14:50

Norman deserves every single bamboo shoot NC is shoving under his fingernails. And more besides.

All that it requires for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I'm pretty sure Normal self-identifies as a good man.

Deliberate or a typo, Justabaker? :-)

Good either way.

(I have been a statistician, Normal is normal to me.)

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:53

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:52

@BettyBooper I'll carry on when we start again, is that OK?

Thank you for all you do, and enjoy what you'll be doing later.

Brilliant, thank you!! Very much appreciated!!

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 14:53

Observations in the break - he is very uncomfortable - his voice has become croaky, he's swinging slightly in his chair, defensive tone, touching his face.

fanOfBen · 25/09/2026 14:52

I've only heard part of his evidence so tell me if I missed something contradicting this impression, but... It wouldn't be relevant to ask him his own views, but it sounds as though if one did, he might quite easily admit to being GC himself?

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:52

PersonIrresponsible · 25/09/2026 14:51

Is the judge a woman?

Yes

NotInMyyName · 25/09/2026 14:52

LovelyHotDonutsNiceNFresh · 25/09/2026 14:41

'Can you hazard a guess?' is going to be this year's 'and would it be rude of me to ask how that is working out?'

I have used Ben’s quote in REAL LIFE and I felt really clever !

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:52

@BettyBooper I'll carry on when we start again, is that OK?

Thank you for all you do, and enjoy what you'll be doing later.

PersonIrresponsible · 25/09/2026 14:51

Is the judge a woman?

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:51

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:49

He's being a lot more snappy in his "I don't agree" and "yes" responses

Hmmmm in that case, no mercy - 'Go on Nay, give 'im 'ell!'

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:50

nauticant · 25/09/2026 14:46

NC has so far been allowed a surprising amount of latitude in her cross-examination. In previous hearings this kind of approach will have been strongly objected to or shot down by the judge.

That said though, the judge might be allowing NC to push the boundaries to avoid activating a potential appeal ground.

I think the basis of the claims perhaps permits the latitude and allows NC to explore these topics.

chilling19 · 25/09/2026 14:50

I must say I preferred the fully remote hearings carried out during COVID - we could actually see who was questioning and who was being questioned. <Fond memories of Ben C>

Justabaker · 25/09/2026 14:50

Norman deserves every single bamboo shoot NC is shoving under his fingernails. And more besides.

All that it requires for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I'm pretty sure Normal self-identifies as a good man.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:49

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:47

I would say that his survival instincts have kicked in and he’s desperately trying to keep to The party line.

He's being a lot more snappy in his "I don't agree" and "yes" responses

ickky · 25/09/2026 14:49

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:47

NC but the fund prob with this creed, is that it doesn't distinguish 'nice harmless Trans ID men' and predators, chancers, perverts. It doesn't distinguish

She also said fetishists

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:49

NC - quotes from doc - the make up of council doesn't reflect membership. The consequences of this are seen by many that a misogynistic voices dominate, the current way of business is not fit for purpose.
NC - executive summary describes this as unacceptable misogyny.
J - we will take a ten minute break.
@threadreaderapp
unroll

Thread Reader App

Thread Reader App (@threadreaderapp) on X

I'm a 🤖 to help you read threads more easily. Reply to any tweet of a thread and mention me with the "unroll" keyword and I'll give you a link back 😀

https://x.com/threadreaderapp

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:48

NC Gender ideology privileges the rights of a minority of men over all women?
NP yes

Well, that's quite an admission!.

Swipe left for the next trending thread