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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

917 replies

nauticant · 24/09/2026 13:07

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

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SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:25

TT

NC - in any event you gave two reasons. You should amend second claim, and two - you said that because of the nature of RCN legal offer...(quotes) not within your discretion. If that's correct, you were right you had no discretion.

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:24

TT

NC - you hadn't had sight of pleadings?
NP - no
NC - then an absurdly bad reason, because you didn't have info to give that advice
NP - don't agree, had information from Stuart. I regarded that it was possible to be argued that it was ongoing discrim

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:23

TT

NP - the legal advice I received was to amend first tribunal than go to second. Had a discussion about that. That was my dilemma in saying no, and explaining no, straying into legal advisor territory.

NC - you seem to be suggesting that you were better placed than her legal team by ref to an analogy to a diff case than her legal team? NP it was my decision at the time.

NC - it was absurd to try and advise a member and that a legal team had been instructed on wasn't it?
NP - no I don't agree.

NC - it was her legal team that had the whole facts on first claim
NP - that's why I had to dilemma on whether to contextualise my advise. I discussed with my legal advisors, that amending was a strong position to take

murasaki · 25/09/2026 15:22

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 15:21

At a guess because only one witness today, it opened an opportunity for NC to slip in a bit of extra blood sport

And it's Friday, she wants to start the weekend on a high.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:22

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 15:21

At a guess because only one witness today, it opened an opportunity for NC to slip in a bit of extra blood sport

I think she's also enjoying not getting interrupted by opposing council and a stroppy judge and just going for it.

Appalonia · 25/09/2026 15:22

His voice is so boring, I think it could cure my insomnia!😂

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 15:21

At a guess because only one witness today, it opened an opportunity for NC to slip in a bit of extra blood sport

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:21

NC - you gave 2 reason in email. She ought to amend existing claim to add claims, ,when hearing less than ten weeks away. Even if Mrs Peggie could amend at this stage. (discussion about process of discp procedure)

NC - How much did you know about first claim Was aware of content and date and circumstances because Stuart rep her.

NC - your understanding more superficial than legal team?
(Glad: NP) - Yes
NC - in light of your lack of knowledge it is absurd for you to amend her case three weeks before (apologies if I got the weeks wrong in prev tweet)

(Bits I add will be in brackets and begin with Glad - added by SomewhatGlad)

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 15:20

“Is it really your evidence to the Tribunal….”

😂😂

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:20

I think NP is hoping someone will pull the fire alarm.

weegielass01 · 25/09/2026 15:19

ooooh margaret is amused - actually I wonder if they changed positions deliberately....

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:19

Was that a rather incredulous toned voice I just heard?

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:18

daffydreams · 25/09/2026 15:17

probably Eunuch gender but i so
don't like to assume

Any sign of cat hairs? That could open up so many other genders.

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:17

TT
NC - you gave 2 reason in email. She ought to amend existing claim to add claims, ,when hearing less than ten weeks away. Even if Mrs Peggie could amend at this stage. (discussion about process of discp procedure)

NC - How much did you know about first claim
(Glad: I assume NP) - Was aware of content and date and circumstances because Stuart rep her.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:17

NP - the request came in from her lawyer which was problematic

Grrrrrrrrrrr

daffydreams · 25/09/2026 15:17

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 15:13

And trousers. I'm so confused.

probably Eunuch gender but i so
don't like to assume

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 15:16

Ooh, I sense a trapdoor...

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:15

NC - even if you didn't have a form, you should have waited to see what she wanted to say before you said no?

NP - the request came in from her lawyer which was problematic Stuart forwarded it to me, I applied the rules of the org as to whether we offered support. The request did not meet the rules.

NC - you had discretion
NP - poor sounds
NC - January email you must have been aware this was an important decision NP- yes
NC - you drafted carefully
NP - I wrote as I would normally, routine

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:14

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 15:13

And trousers. I'm so confused.

Understandable.

If only there was some other way to tell!

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 15:14

TT
NC - Second claim page 400 please. Look at MG email Dec 2024. She drew to SF attention grounds for second claim and wanted to apply to RCN for the forms. SF referred that on to you and suggested a call.

(SomewhatGlad: still NC)
Your decision not to support that second claim. You start by saying number of issues problematic issues. Aren't you jumping the gun here?
NP we had been asked for forms, we don't have forms, that's not the mechanism.
(Missed poor sound)

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 15:13

murasaki · 25/09/2026 15:13

But has she got a v necked top. According to Australia, that's the clincher.

And trousers. I'm so confused.

murasaki · 25/09/2026 15:13

weegielass01 · 25/09/2026 15:11

the judge has long hair and womanly clothing so that is enough to make her a woman.....

But has she got a v necked top. According to Australia, that's the clincher.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 15:13

Moving on to excuse excuse excuse. Makes a change, not much mind, from waffle waffle waffle.

weegielass01 · 25/09/2026 15:11

the judge has long hair and womanly clothing so that is enough to make her a woman.....

Datun · 25/09/2026 15:11

RoseInAPot · 25/09/2026 15:03

Of interest from Nick who has been doing some reading during the break...

[the Carr report was written in 2022 and it is strong. This from the Exec Summary: "The RCN has been described as being “in a state of crisis as it goes blindly from one catastrophe to another without any respite in sight”. On the basis...

... of what I have seen, it is difficult to argue with that assessment."]

["It is an organisation which at its top, is riddled with division, dysfunction and distrust. Whilst the distrust is most prominent relation to the RCN’s Council and its Executive, it extends...

["... to relationships within Council and within the membership as well as between its professional and trade union arms."]

["There is a culture of suspicion within Council in which it does not believe that the Executive is acting in the best interests of the members..."]

Blimey.

["The culture of suspicion is further driven by fear of the next Emergency General Meeting (EGM). Both staff and Council members alike operate in an atmosphere in which they expect that their decisions will lead to a revolt from active groups within the membership who, due to the threshold requirement of 1,000 votes, are able to trigger an EGM as has been done twice in the last four years. This in turn causes organisational paralysis."]

["The make-up of Council does not reflect the membership of the College – despite recent improvements in the gender balance, it is still nearly 60% male whereas the membership is almost 90% female. As far as ethnicity is concerned, it is no better and the current Council is not reflective of the fact that around 45% of RCN members are from the BAME community. Many of those who serve on Council are seen as being “the same old faces” who have operated in the upper echelons of the College for many years. This, together with the lack of women or ethnic minority members, permits of a culture in which the College is seen to be run by middle-aged, white men. The substantial number of resignations from Council in recent years has only served to reinforce this perception. If RCN members do not feel that the College looks like they do – whether it be by reference to gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or disability – they will at best not engage with and be active in it and at worst, will take their membership elsewhere."]

[Wow - "There is a real issue that needs to be addressed in relation to the culture of Congress. The evidence that I have seen suggests that there is a level of expectation amongst a significant number of (male) attendees that opportunities for sexual activity will present themselves at Congress. As a consequence, the boundaries between consensual and potentially exploitative sexual activity are at risk of becoming blurred if they have not already done so. That Congress is seen as a place at which there is, for at least some attendees, an expectation of, or an opportunity for, sex to take place, means that there is also the opportunity for alcohol and power-related exploitation of the vulnerable."]

[okay we're back]

....

Wtf??

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