Dolly Parton apparently misguided on trans issues

They're splits, surely?

Salted or unsalted butter?! Scone warfare is RELENTLESS.

I just thanked you but realise I made an error, because you have made an error

You dont put butter, then jam, then cream. Because cream needs to adhere, if not, it will slip slide on the butter.

Its cream first by the way, but you are right that butter has to be present at all times.

Im reporting this awful picture.

Its butter, then cream, then jam.

What madness is this? You say that cream will slide on the butter but then advocate for putting cream directly on to butter! Make this make sense please @likelysuspect

Listen, I make it work in many a tea room up and down the land

Im semi professional.

This comment is pure perfection. What a kind, thoughtful, accurate way of describing how I also see the situation.

Interesting that Dolly's death was used to attack JKR for writing a pro Dolly post.

Whatever Dolly's actual position is she never criticised JKR, Terfs or LGBT people.

She also never criticised Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans or any religion. She never criticised Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden.

Wondering how everyone in the US likes her despite it being the most polarised place ever. That is the secret.

Yet those who wonder about Dolly's opinions on sex/gender and what they might be are ducking an interesting point. Lets take a look at her relationship with a man who definitely has opinions and Dolly's last ever acting role.

Yes what about Seth McFarlane and his sci-fi Orville series.

Seth McFarlane made massive offensive jokes about trans stuff stuff in the past on Family Guy. He never apologised in fact he said he stands by them.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/seth-macfarlane-family-guy-transphobic

Orville a series he created and stars in is tribute/parody of Star Trek features a race the Moclans. The Molcans at first appear to be a single sex, homosexual society which is deeply masculine, and aggressive and basically a bunch of stick up blokes who are obsessed with rigid ideas about honour. As the series develops we discover they are actually a male female species. It is just all females are surgically altered to become males as soon as they hit puberty. The Molcans are horribly misogynistic and hate women so much they don't want any to exist. They also can very easily get addicted to porn there is entire episode about it.

The main two molcan characters in the series have a daughter and there is a huge drama about whether she should have the surgery. There is one secret women Heveena on Molcha who escaped before having the surgery and hides in the mountains. To resolve the drama Seth Mcfarlane as the Captain meets her and in talking with her introduces her to the songs of Dolly Parton. She takes them to be songs of female empowerment and gathering with other female molchans set up a secret female refuge which the Molchan male government tries to destroy. At one point The Captain uses a hologram of Dolly played by Dolly herself to inspire Heveena in her fight to embody feminist power. It is a complicated story read the write up here.
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Moclan

Now some of taken this whole thing to be a celebration of trans ideas. Yet in the story the whole point is forcing girls to have surgery because a bunch of blokes think they are disgusting females is an awful idea. Instead the real heroes are a bunch of plucky feminist women inspired by the songs of Dolly Parton defying male religious porny violent twats and stopping kids having surgeries.

This all seems rather Terfy to me. It is also pretty funny. It is even more funny that Mcfarlane might have smuggled a very pointed critique of trans ideology into a show and yet somehow has got away with it. Also in the series there is a whole bit about how other evil scumbags try and control women's bodies and not let them have abortions.

Interested in what others think. Anyway however you look at it there is no stepping away from the fact Dolly's last appearance was inspiring a bunch of feminist resistance fighters in the future.

Yet strangely it doesn't work the same way with females. With rape survivors and trauma victims and survivors. When you are more likely to know the female sex, to understand trauma victims, you are more likely to support their hard won female only single sex spaces. If you, you're more likely to be a misogynist bigot and believe women and little girls rights to safety, privacy and dignity doesn't matter, that only male 'feelz' matter.

Start with the premise like hers and find a mutually agreed solution with both sides being respectful

We tried that. Trans would not compromise 1 millimetre. We offered third spaces, gender neutral alongside male/female. We offered to fundraise, help turn the first sod. NOPE. NADA! Not one THING! It's not our side that is not being respectful and trying. Transwomen have said they deliberately walk straight past the GN toilets to the males. It's spite. One said they urinated all over the seat in the ladies to 'send a message'.

Trans don't want to be respectful and they sure don't want to find a solution. They've said it themselves. Being in the female toilets is the only point to them.

In my experience it's often women who have experienced some form of abuse from men and developed a deep fear of men

Yes, and? Do you really blame women and girls for fearing the male sex?

*they deliberately walk straight past the GN toilets to the females that should say, not males.

You seem to talking on behalf of entire groups here. Do you have a source for the message on a toilet seat incident? That seems an odd thing to do, given there would be no way for any future users of the toilet to know they were receiving a message from a transwoman. Bizarre.

Respectfully, I don’t think being in the ladies’ toilets is the only point for transwomen. Maybe some, not all.

I think the slightly mad obsessiveness of many TIMs and TRAs is extremely well pointed up by one of them saying that he intends pissing on the lavatory seat in a woman's sss; it is essentially just straightforward nastiness with a thin veneer of "reason". "That'll teach the bitches for trying to stop me from doing whatever I want!" writ large. I doubt he has though as far as "how will they know it was me"; maybe he plans to take pictures and post them on line.

Incidentally, it would be quite difficult for someone without a penis deliberately to piss on a toilet seat (as a woman, you'd need to do some acrobatic stuff if you wanted to avoid getting piss on your clothes) so he is telling the world that he still has his penis. How is he a woman, again?

Respectfully, I don’t think being in the ladies’ toilets is the only point for transwomen. Maybe some, not all.

If it is only 'some' who are obsessed with toilets, they are very vocal, very noisy, very aggressive.
Haven't you noticed all the 'we just want to pee' 'I've always used the ladies' and will continue to do so' 'urinary leash'

Even though the FWS/Supreme Court judgement was about representation on committees, it almost instantly became 'All About Urination' to the trans movement.

TRAs also did the very male thing of marking 'their' territory in what has to be one of the least hygienic demos ever: 'Pissed Off Trannies' bringing 60 bottles of urine and dumping them - emptying some of them - at the offices of the EHRC:
The VICE news website said: "Very much here for people leaving bottles of p outside the EHRC to protest its stance on trans rights." The group reportedly shouted: "The EHRC has blood on its hands and p on its streets."
Anger from Scots feminists as 'pee protest' trans activists target UK's equality watchdog - Scottish Daily Express

There are cases - sorry I don't have links to reports - of transwomen posting videos of themselves using the women's toilet, as if they were doing something big and brave.

'Being in the ladies' toilets' is so centre-stage that you'd be forgiven for thinking that the T that was glommed on to LGB stood for 'Toilets'!

I don’t disagree with all that. There certainly are aggressive ones. I just don’t agree that it’s all of them.

That's true of men in general though.

We don't consider it unreasonable to exclude all men from woman-only provisions based on the few, nor do we have men and their allies jumping around complaining that in doing so we must be saying or implying all men are problematic. It's just when it comes to men who claim to be women that the rules seem to change.

What does it matter

I thought her words were kind and supportive she was a kind and caring woman

I would change my mind about Dolly Parton if she voiced hateful and discriminatory views but she didn’t

it’s not all one or the other but sadly this is how issues have become for so many so called supporters who dominate the discussions they seem to want to argue points rather than listen to each other and find a common ground

She’s dead FFS. Let it go.

I totally agree, it's never all of any group

Obviously not.

But how are we supposed to tell which is an aggressive one?

What I do know is that if I disagree with one, what will happen in short order is male-pattern aggression and ludicrous accusations that come straight from the "script". Telling me lies about what I am supposed to have said during the past half hour is never going to win me over, nor convince me of anything except "I thought this was a reasonable person, but it's actually a bit insane."

And there was I thinking I could stop discussing toilets after FWS. I had no idea it would ramp up like this. Madness.

I suspect that part of the reason women do feel strongly about this is actually contained in the word "madness". It is mad for a man to claim he is a woman; therefore anyone making that claim is mad; the only question is, how mad exactly is he. Ravin' and axe-murderin' mad, or sittin' in a corner gibberin' mad?

To be fair I haven’t come across axes!

Among bizarre things I can think of off the top of my head when doing research: a carrot usage fetish that was the last straw for a council’s public toilets, a design of a one way mirror at seated level for an ‘inclusive’ toilet design, and a discussion on non-binary crotch heights and urinals in a government-commissioned document for people with disabilities and long term health conditions. There’s some wacky contraptions in design that attempt to stop sex and drug use too. There was one unisex toilet that had a floor that weighed the occupant. If you weighed too much, the electronic door wouldn’t close. Not great for mums with shopping and kids!

I don't think there has yet been a publicised example of a man wielding an axe when he demanded admission with menaces to the ladies' lavatory, but there was one with a sword at one point claiming that he couldn't see why anyone would object to his brandishing it about in the loos. Presumably all he wanted was a piss, he wasn't a character in search of a piste. Maybe he was pissed.